Victoria Rydberg(VR): Hello.

Caitlin Farrell(CF): Ok, it works so we can start. Um, what's the first thing you think of when you think of WWII? What's the first thing that pops into your head?

VR: The first thing was, because I was newly, well, no I wasn't, cause you said it was forty…

CF: Forty, forty one, is when America joined in.

VR: Well, it was because, I dreaded that he would have to go to war.

CF: Right, your husband.

VR: Cause he was at American Steel. But then he was on defense work.

CF: So, he worked at American Steel and Wire?

VR: Yes, American Steel and Wire.

CF: And because of that, he got deferred from the draft?

VR: Yes, right.

CF: So, did he stay there throughout the war?

VR: Yes, throughout the war.

CF: And what kinds of work was he doing for defense, do you remember, at American Steel?

VR: Well, I suppose it was the steel. My husband ran a ah, wait a minute now, see how I loose my words. Doesn't make a very good….what am I trying to say? It's a…cabin that goes on wheels and he picked up scrap with a magnet. And so that was the steel that they needed for the war.

CF: Ok. So, did any other members of your family work in American Steel or just your husband?

VR: No, just my husband.

CF: Did a lot of men who worked there receive deferment because they were doing defense work?

VR: Yes, yes they did.

CF: Did a lot of women, do you know, go to work at the steel mill? I know at a lot of other companies across the country, a lot of women..

VR: Not really. I don't think, no, I don't think the wire mill here in Quinsigamond Village, they didn't even have a cafeteria that I knew of. My husband took his lunch.

CF: Oh, wow.

VR: But, he worked all three shifts. Seven to three, three to eleven, and eleven to seven. And, we had three children. And one week of each shift. I don't know how I got through it, but I did.

CF: That must have been a tough schedule.

VR: Yeah, yes, for meals and.

CF: Was the steel plant a big part of your life? Was there a lot going on there?

VR: Not really. I mean.

CF: It was just where he worked?

VR: Yes. Just working, yup.

CF: Ok. Did you yourself work during the war?

VR: Well, I suppose I did. I was at the telephone company. But, I mean, there was no, nothing that I knew of that was, of the war there.

CF: Were you working before Pearl Harbor? Did you have a job?….When did you start at the telephone company?

VR: Let's see. I haven't got it written down and it's not in my head. But, it was I guess, after the war when I worked at Helen's bakery down here. Did you notice that?

CF: Mmhmm.

VR: I was there for 8 years. And, then I went over to Samuel's (?) another, they just had a little cafeteria. But, I liked that because I did have the children, and then,

CF: Yeah. But, so, during the war years, you were with the telephone company? At Bell was it?

VR: Yeah, I would think so, if it was during the 40s.

CF: And did you do, were there any rallies or scrap drives that you did over there?

VR: No, no, I don't think so. I didn't have much to do with my husband's work.

CF: But, did the phone company do anything for the war? I mean, like, bottle drives, or anything like that?

VR: Well, if they did, I didn't know about it. I don't think…I can't remember..sorry.

CF: Oh, no, that's alright. Did it feel like the country being at war was part of your everyday life or..?

VR: It did after awhile. It's worse now that I'm this age and I have to leave my two girls and my son, who's up in Fairbanks, Alaska with a war on. But, I've got no control of that.

CF: Yeah…So, you had your children during the war then? You said you were married in '39?

VR: Yes.

CF: And you said you had three?

VR: Yes, three.

CF: And what was it like having children during the war?

VR: Well, it was good, ah, and, I do remember, too, we had the Depression, was that during the war?

CF: Right before.

VR: Well, then, when I was home, before I was married, my mother used to say, we'd ask for meat, we had rations, ration stamps, you know.

CF: Right.

VR: And we were Swedish and she'd make Swedish meatballs. And that's what we'd ask her for, and she'd say, Oh, we don't have the coupons to get them, because we own our house. But, she'd say you can't complain, you're doing very well. We have chicken, so you can have chicken whenever you want. We've got eggs, and milk. So, we're well off. She told about a friend of her's that stood in line, and they asked if she owned her home, and she said "Yes, I do, but we don't eat clapboards. I need stamps." That part I remember now.

CF: Yeah, certain things stick out.

VR: Yeah, it comes back.

CF: Um, were you nervous, with your children? I mean, were there air raids and blackouts in Worcester?

VR: Well, we were, to a certain extent, but I mean, when I think of it now, it wasn't really bad. Because, it was far away, you know.

CF: Did you, I know, over on Ames Street, Evelyn said they had the civil Service to make sure everyone's blinds were down and everything. Did you have stuff like that as well?

VR: No, no we didn't.

CF: No? So you didn't have the blackouts?

VR: No, well, we weren't here. I've only been here for 57 years. We were, let's see now,

CF: Were you over on Hawthorne St?

VR: No, not Hawthorne St. When we were first married, we were on…Carlstad St, off of Whipple St.

CF: Mmhmm.

VR: But, I know, ah, we talked about the war and read about it and everything. But, it didn't really effect us that much. So, we were, consider ourselves very lucky.

CF: Was your main source of hearing about it through the newspapers or radio?

VR: Yes, the newspapers mostly.

CF: Did you listen to, ah, President Roosevelt's Fireside chats? Do you remember that?

VR: Yes, yes. I liked Roosevelt, he was good, very good.

CF: How come?

VR: Well, I thought, he helped us get, ah, Social Sec..no…

CF: Yes.

VR: Yes, Social Security. Yeah. So, I thought he did a wonderful thing for us, and we still have that. Now, we're so poor, the country is down, oh, and people are still laying off in big companies, so, I feel bad I have to leave them with this world, but I'm sure the children will manage I'm sure.

CF: Mmhmm….Um, Did you have a Victory Garden or anything?

VR: Yes. My father had the land down on Hawthorne St. And I had four brothers. They each got a piece of land of what he had there, but I didn't, but they gave me money to get myself a stove. I was living in the Village. So we got a stove. But, we did, we raised, Wesley and I, or he did mostly, sweet potatoes. The dry kind. There's two kinds of sweet potatoes if you know. What's the name of the others that are wet, that's what the sell mostly. And, I buy, they have a few of the others, but I wish they had more of the dry ones. It's a dry, like a potato, a white potato, only it's yellow. But, ah,

CF: And you grew those in the garden?

VR: Yeah, yeah. And I had a refrigerator there with a big drawer in the bottom, just to put paper bags in. We had that full of sweet potatoes. But, now I notice, it was a couple days ago in the paper, there's something, sweet potatoes are supposed to be very good for you.

CF: Oh, good. Kept you healthy for so long.

VR: Isn't that funny I can't think of that. Well, Evelyn gets it a little too, but she's much better, she's a year younger than I am.

CF: No, you're doing fine. Um, did you, were you part of any organizations, church groups, or?

VR: Oh yes, Evelyn and I were in a church group. We had 36 years of the Alter Guild.

CF: Wow.

VR: So, we took care of the flowers, Evelyn, polished silver. I didn't think we'd ever get rid of it. I enjoyed it, but then it got to be so I was complaining about it, because then it's not good.

CF: No, then it's no fun.

VR: No. But, now where we've got this new, we have a lady pastor, she's very good. She's very bouncy, heavy girl, but very motherly like. And the kids like her, and we like her. She's very good.

CF: Were you part of any groups or did your church do anything for the war directly? Raise money or bake sales or?

VR: They must have, cause we did a lot. I'm a baker, a cook. So I did a lot of that. For different things, but I'm sure there was something,

CF: Red Cross or something?

VR: And I went around this neighborhood picking up money for Red Cross. And I still get letters and I tell that I can't do it, because I just can't do it anymore. And my daughter Shirley, at Holy Cross, she says it goes through a computer. They just keep.

CF: Right, you're just in the system. Um, did you feel like there was a big change in your life when the war began?

VR: No, I had a brother-I still have a brother-in-law on Rydberg Terrace that comes to me on weekends, he has Meals on Wheels, his wife died quite a few years ago.

CF: Mmhmm.

VR: And he had to go. He was over in Hawaii. And I felt bad about that. Cause, she was alone. We were near by, and we held better than a lot of people. The war wasn't too bad on us.

CF: Was that the only member of your family that had to go?

VR: Yeah, yeah. And, ah, now, I can't think of anything else.

CF: Was there a big economic difference? I know a lot of families were real poor and then after the war began, they were able to get work.

VR: Yeah, yes. Well, that's true, and I could tell you about my mother, too, when they had the Depression, she had a grocery man who came to the house and took the order. And her order, I remember, went up to $100 and that was a lot of money in those days. But, he says, "Mrs. Grahn, I know that you will pay me. So, you get what you want and need for your children." He says, "I have those that I feel like I should give them, but, I doubt that I'll get paid for them." So, she did. And finally, when my brother Vic, the oldest, got working and paid her bills and she was clear again. And she says, "I was lucky."

CF: Did any of your other brothers work at American Steel?

VR: No, no, Wes was the only one at American Steel.

CF: Do you know what they did for work? You brothers? Or any of your husband's friends?

VR: Well, lets see. Vic was a mechanist, the oldest. And Herman worked at Crompton Noles(?), that's a wood…

CF: Carpentry?

VR: Yes, carpentry. And Ed, my brother Ed, was an artist. He went to, ah,

CF: Did he work under one of Roosevelt's programs as an artist?

VR: No, no not really. Well, it could have been Roosevelt, too, I don't, I didn't dwell into that. In those days, while they were doing that, I was growing, ah, raising a family.

CF: Mmhmm. Um, what was your sense of why were fighting the war? Did you know, like if I had said "Why are we sending the soldiers?"

VR: Yeah, well, that's what I say, Gee, why, I didn't realize why we were fighting. Because, a woman has her boys, raises them, goes through having them..being born, you know, that's not easy. And then you send them away to, it doesn't seem right. But, I know, and a lot of boys, too, realized that they had to show that they were going to defend their country, so they went willingly. But, it's not easy for a mother to get, for someone to come to the door and say that he's gone.

CF: Yeah…

VR: So, but my one boy didn't have to. He went into the Service, but he didn't have to go. He was in…what is it that…I can't remember...but then I tell myself, Don't fret, you can get up in the morning and get dressed.

CF: Right.

VR: But, I used to drive. Just last fall, I had to give up my car, it was old. And I really don't feel, I don't want to spend the little bit I have left, I want to leave it for the girls, to buy a used car. More or less, I feel this way you buy someone else's troubles.

CF: Yeah. [Laughter]

VR: And I can't afford a new one.

CF: Right.

VR: But, I do miss it. They told me I would and I do.

CF: Yeah… How did you feel when Pearl Harbor was attacked? Do you remember that-?

VR: Oh, well that was really, I was upset over that. But, I thought, Gee, and I think, I even, way back when I was young, I used to say to my mother, "Why do they have war?" And she said, "Well, that's just something, it seems to me, that there will always be war. There'll always be somebody that disagrees with somebody else, you know."

CF: Do you remember hearing the address that Roosevelt gave the country after?

VR: I do remember, but not word for word.

CF: Right, but you do remember listening to it?

VR: Yes, he was a wonderful man, I thought.

CF: What did you think of Germany and Japan?

VR: Well, I thought, we should each take care of ourselves. But, course when something like this comes, you have to help all around.

CF: Right..

VR: This bothers me now cause it was so close to home.

CF: Yeah.

VR: Gosh.

CF: Did you-oh, go ahead.

VR: They say that was their religion. Boy. I don't where they get that from. They're very….fighting, aggravating people.

CF: Who?

VR: The..af…ah..Afghani

CF: Oh. In Afghanistan.

VR: But, those women now, that could take of their robes, oh. And I read, was it in the funnies? And the girl was, saw the mother with the robe on, and she's holding it, or, and greeting a little girl. And she says, "Why don't you go home?" And she says, "Dear, if I could I would, but my home isn't home anymore." And that's the way I think, you know.

CF: Did you feel like there was a role for you as an individual on the home front? Like, did you feel a patriotic duty to help out? Or was it not really..?

VR: No, we had drives, drives at church. And I was always there to donate food and at least save canned goods and have drives to help.

CF: Did you feel like the Village or Worcester had to make a sacrifice or had to change in anyway because of the war?

VR: Well, it changed in ways, that you heard of people that you new who had to send boys, and that was hard.

CF: Mmhmm. And was there a change in the economic status of the Village at all? Having more money or less money or more work or?

VR: I would say less money, and we had, at the old church, we belonged to the Emmanuel, the new one here. But, the old one's still in the Village, it's a Youth Center now. But, they had that you could bring in canned goods and food there.

CF: Mmhmm. Did you have any patriotic posters or decorations or anything on the house? A flag or anything?

VR: Oh, we had flags. But, that's about all I can remember.

CF: Do you remember seeing, like, all the "Uncle Sam Needs You" posters?

VR: Oh yes. Yes.

CF: Did you have them up at the telephone company?

VR: Oh yes. Yes we did.

CF: Yes? And the "Rosie the Riveter" ones?

VR: Oh yes, I remember those, too.

CF: Did you, were you ever thinking of going to the factories?

VR: Oh, no, I was just a homebody. (laughs) But, we used to feel that if we helped the poor that couldn't get the food or didn't have stamps enough to get around, so. But, that was more like when I was younger, because my mother used to say "Don't, you're not suffering like a lot of people are because you've got everything you need."

CF: Um, how you did learn, or how did your children learn about the war? Were they talking about it in school or?

VR: In school, and then, they'd come home and tell us, and it was in the papers, you know.

CF: Right. How did you talk about it with your children? Did they ask you questions?

VR: Yeah, they wanted to know was it going to come here. But, we'd hope and pray that it won't, that's why we had to help those that were in the war that need our help.

CF: Right. Did your children do anything, were they part of anything, a group, or did they do things at school?

VR: Not that I can remember. They must have done things at school…I can't remember. I know, my son was that's up in Alaska now, When he got through high school, he had a couple years of college in Boston, and he says, "I'm going to Alaska." And I said, "Alaska? What are you going up there for?" And he said, "Oh, Mommy, I want to see Alaska." So, he did, and he got up there. And he got the other two years of college in Fairbanks. And they say, Come on Rydberg, you've got your diploma, now give it another year and you'll have your Masters and your pick of jobs. And he's an engineer up there.

CF: Oh, that's great. That's wonderful.

VR: He was home just about, a few weeks ago. For two weeks with his wife. It was wonderful. He was helping us, it's only Linda and I here. And, you go to hire someone to take down a few trees that get too big, cause I have four acres here, more than I, we need. But, I say, it was so nice. Now, his two children, a boy and a girl, and they're both married. And, now, they've been taking trips all over because he's doing very well. He says, now maybe they'll come home more often, and that's wonderful. So, I have to take care of me so I can last a little bit longer.

CF: Yes, so you can enjoy the visit. Um, let's see. What was the news coverage like, when you read the newspaper or listened to the radio? Was it positive or was it scary or?

VR: It was scary. They had big letters, War. I can remember that part. And we talked a lot about it. And, I guess it must have been Ken then cause he was, three or four years old. But….like I say, I wish I could remember more.

CF: Oh, no, you're doing fine. Um, was there anything that you did during the war, that you stopped doing afterwards? Do you know what I mean? Like, was there anything you did at work, or with the church, or with your family, that you did during the war, but after it was over you didn't do anymore?

VR: Well, except for this running to the houses for the Red Cross, and taking up. And then they sent me the letters that I could give and then they would do it. But, well, I did it as much as I could, but I can't now, I can't walk that much.

CF: Right. Was there a difference in your faith life during the war or were you always active?

VR: No, I got more into faith, we went to church more regularly.

CF: Mmhmm. Did you find that the whole Village did that?

VR: Yeah, I think so. And then we went to suppers with churches and got to know each other better. That was good thing.

CF: So, would you say there was a stronger feeling of community?

VR: Yes, very much so.

CF: And I know Quinsigamond Village is a high Swedish population.

VR: Yeah, it was, but now I don't think it is. But, it was then.

CF: Right. Did you feel more like Swedish or more like Americans? Was there a difference?

VR: More Swedish, in school, now when my mother had four boys, two girls, my older sister, she was 14 when she died and I was seven, so I remember some of it, but not a lot. But, when I got to Mrs. Kelly, she says, "What's your name?" And I said "Victoria Grahn." And she said, "Grahn?" I said, "Yes, G-R-A-H-N." And she says, well, she said, "I've had four boys, but I didn't think they had any girls." (laughter) I said, "Well, they have one, me."

CF: Um, the fact that Sweden was neutral during WWII, did that make a difference to how you felt or how the Village felt?

VR: No, but I do remember that big mailbox. I wasn't, we took it when my mother's, my father died first, and my mother come up to live with me, we took that mailbox of her's. Wes said, "We might as well take it." We were going to buy a new one, but now, I'm glad we have it, my daughter, she gets a lot of magazines and sometimes a package will fit in it. So, that mail box was near the house on Hawthorne St. And I used to go with my mother, I was very little then, out to get the mail. And, she started to cry, her mother in Sweden had died.

CF: Oh, that's sad.

VR: I know Sweden didn't, they weren't in this.

CF: They didn't fight.

VR: Right.

CF: And, did that make a difference to how you thought?

VR: Yes, we used to, my mother used to say that, too. But, then when she got so she could have gone, her health wasn't good, so she never got back. But, then even if she had gotten back, a lot of her sisters, it was a big family, had gone.

CF: Mmhmm…What kinds of things did you do for fun with your family or with the children? Did you take them downtown or to White City..?

VR: Yeah, my husband was a great one for going on the country roads all around here, Manchoag and places like that. And out for an ice cream cone. We'd do that quite often on Sundays.

CF: Mmhmm. Did you attend anything in Worcester, downtown? Any shows or?

V Some, but, ah, the movies, even then, they were better than they are now, but ah, not that much. When they got to be fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, then we'd let them go once in awhile.

CF: Right, right. Did you ever go up to White City?

VR: Oh yes, yes. We did.

CF: Was that fun?

VR: Oh yes, that was a good time. Oh, I remember, once when we went to White City. My father took us. And they had all the things you took chances on. And I stood there, and of course my brothers were much older than I was. And there was a black fellow that stood up and it said, "Hit the Coon in the head and get a cigar." (lowers voice)

CF: Oh.

VR: And I started to cry. And I said, "Don't let them throw balls at that man." So, we went home. My mother says, "Well, you better stay away from those shows." But, I never had any…um..how would you say, toward the black people. Cause, I figured, God made them too,

CF: Right.

VR: And, they're just as good as we are. And we have the bad ones and the good ones and so do they.

CF: Right…..Did you feel like, I know you said your church group did a lot of work, but did you feel like your pastor or the church leaders were in favor of the war? Were they supportive?

VR: They were supportive, yes, they were supportive.

CF: They didn't, they weren't talking for peace or..

VR: No, no.

CF: Did any of your customs or cultural traditions change over the war? Were there things that you used to do that you stopped doing or things that you did differently?

VR: There were things that we couldn't buy. For food. Oh, I remember, too, my son, butter was expensive, you know. So you bought the margarine white and then you get a little plastic thing with some yellow..

CF: Oh, dye?

VR: Yes. And my son, being the biggest, he'd say, "Mum, let me make the butter, let me make the butter." [Laughter] And, my mother used to get a kick out of that. And we'd let him, and he'd think he was doing a good thing making the butter. But, my daughter that lives with me now, she won't eat butter yet.

CF: Oh, she's used to the margarine?

VR: Yes.

CF: Was there anything that you did over the holidays, or any family traditions?

VR: We always kept up. I always had Thanksgiving here. And then it got to be, when my daughter Shirley, when she had her two girls, or the one of them, she'd say, "It's too hard. She'd have Christmas, cause she'd say, it's too hard to get them in snow suits. So, she said, "Why don't you let me have Christmas." And I'd help with the pies and things. And then she says, "I can stay home with the children." And, I'm going to try to have Thanksgiving here again. My mother gave me this big table.

CF: It's nice.

VR: And Linda's the one that does it. She won't let me wash the floors or anything!
She works at the new hospital up here.

CF: Oh, at Medical City?

VR: Yes, she's a secretary to her doctor that does intensive care. And she likes it. And, before that, she worked at, maybe I shouldn't be talking about this..

CF: Oh, no, that's fine.

VR: She was at Digital. And, of course they laid off a lot when they moved. And it took her 45 minutes to get there, to Northboro. And 45 minutes to get home. And I used to worry about her when the weather was bad. Now it takes her 10 minutes.

CF: Yeah, that's nice…..How did you find out that the war had ended? Do you remember how you heard about the end?

VR: I imagine the papers.

CF: Mmhmm. And how did you feel? Was there a celebration? Or..

VR: Well, um, I know we had special services in the church.

CF: Mmhmm. Was there a celebration in the city or in the Village, do you remember? A parade or something?

VR: There could have been a parade and we brought the children to that, yes.

CF: Do you see a difference with the way you remember the war with the way it's being portrayed in the movies or in the school books? Do you see a difference between actually living it and how we remember it?

VR: Yeah, I kinda think now, the way it came so close, that I would remember more, mind it more. It was far away from us, but we had those that we in need.

CF: Is that, was that, your, That's why you thought, to help those in need in Europe?

VR: Yes, yeah. When my husband died, that was, well, we were married in '39. And, we have a memorial fund in church. And, it was something like $800. And I said to pastor, he was always concerned about anyone who was hungry. He was a good eater, you know. (laughs) So, they ask you if you want anything special done with that money. I don't know just where it went now, but I told him, if you see a place, that's needed..

CF: Mmhmm…Is there anything that sticks out in your memory that we haven't really talked about? Anything that you remember?…Sometimes, something, you can remember, like one special day..

VR: Yeah, yes.

CF: Or a conversation real well..Or anything that you identify with that part of your life, young family, newly married?

VR: I remember Ken used to say, he was about five or six. He'd say, "I'm strong, I could go to war." I said, "Ken don't say that." He says, "I know, but I'd come back." And, I said, "But that's what you can't be sure of."

CF: Right. How many sons did you have?

VR: One.

CF: Just the one. And he wanted to be a soldier?

VR: Yeah. And he's, 62 he'll be in April. And Linda, that stays here with me now. She's 50, so she's still young. She's such a big help. Thank God I've got the two children here. And I've got Shirley that lives down near Evelyn. So, now when I quit driving, and got rid of my old car, they take me. Course, you can go to the market now late at night, you know. But, I thought, I've driven for over 40 years, and I thought, it was time to get through. You're 85, get off the road. They talk about re-examining people, that are older and driving. So, I thought, Be smart, do it right. So, I did. And, I did have an accident, that was in '74. I broke both my legs. This one in two places.

CF: Oh no!

VR: And, the bone broke right off. They had to take a piece from my hip and put it in. And the fellow, the doctor that took care of me, was a neighbor of mine on Hawthorne St. And he said, "You're a tough old Swede, you'll be walking again." (laughs) And then he said, when he saw the separation, I had been in the hospital, maybe..I don't know, it was 12 weeks in all. And he says, "You go home and rest a for awhile, then come back and we'll do that." And I said, "No, Tiny (?), if you're going to do anymore to me, you'd better do it now, because I won't come back. If you let me go, I won't come back."

CF: Yeah.

VR: So, he says, "Well, you need that to make your legs strong." And thank God I can walk.

CF: Yeah, that's wonderful.

VR: I walk the my driveway twice a day, to get the mail.

CF: That's good….Um, did you ever, did American Steel and Wire, did they ever give pamphlets or brochures or anything? Were they a big part of your life, or was it just like any other job?

VR: No, just a job, really. Cause, with the children, and Wes, he was a shy fellow. He didn't get into anything like that.

CF: Mmhmm.

VR: Then when the Union comes in, he got very good summer money and vacation money that he had never gotten before. That was a good thing.

CF: Was it, when did the Union come? Do you remember?

VR: That I don't remember. But, that's when we bought this, and now, like I say, we moved in here, 57 years. My daughter Shirley is 57. When we came up here, she was just barely a year old.

CF: Ummm…is there anything else..?

VR: No, I really can't think of anything else.

CF: I think we've talked about a lot of good stuff.

VR: If I had been smart then, I would have been keeping things. Shirley gave me a nice book for my birthday, to keep track of things. And, I've done some, but it's a little behind now.

CF: Well, we can stop.