Since my first interview with Mrs. Courtney did not come out and a lot of valuable interview information was lost I had to re-interview her this morning.  This interview and the first interview should be left read together for the full effect.

What do you remember about White City?

Oh White City was an amusement Park and we had more fun up there.  We had little places to go dancing there, there was the skate-arena there, the fun house – we had more fun in the fun house.  (Laughter)  And that laughing lady – ya know the one you’d go by and she would laugh – haha...  Just like that.  (Laughter again)  I used to impersonate her so good.  We used to have more fun with that.  Then we had a penny arcade. . .

Oh really. . . ?

Yup, and they had all kinds of amusements and different kinds of tables.  There was a roller coaster – a big huge roller coaster.  And they used to have these plane rides that would almost go out over the water and around.

That’s one of the ones you said was your favorite, right?   

Right we should to sit in the planes and go round and round over the water.  We had a lot of fun in there; that was quite a place to go.  And like I said we had the trolley cars and they ran until late in the evening.  Or if you felt like walking you walked it – it wasn’t that bad.  And um, but they – we used to go on like a Sunday afternoon and you’d stay there all evening and then walk home.  Bosses were running.  Buses used to run until 11:00pm where were always busy, but years ago we didn’t have all the kinds of cars that you have today.  So you walked – you either walked or you took a bus.  And if you walked you’d walk along the street and put your arm around each other and you were all set.  And you’d stop and talk to everybody.  And by the time you got home that was fine but I’ve never seen anything that long.  

Well the movies, at that time would be like 50 cents.  And if you went to The Palace for 50 cents you thought in were in a, you thought you were something.  And when you went uptown you didn’t go in dungarees or anything.  You’d be all dressed up, all dressed up with your white gloves and everything.

Oh really – white gloves and everything?

Oh yeah when you went shopping.  Oh yeah when you went downtown you never left the house unless you were dressed.

Ok.  

Heels or whatever you wanted to wear.  And hats were the thing.  Everyone wore hats and white gloves.  I miss that – I really do.

Except, except I like the white gloves, except for the walking in heels.

Oh the walking in heels, well geez – 

Because you said you used to walk everywhere and I think my feet would hurt.

Well I don’t mean walk in high heels.  You have loafers - loafers were quite the thing in that day with the penny in front. 

Yup - sticking in the front.

Yeah penny, oh no loafers were quite the thing and you wore loafer shoes if you were going walking like that. . .

A distance. .  .

But if you were going downtown – you dressed up because you never know who you were going to bump into.  And if you went into a restaurant at least you looked decent.  It was nice.  And if you went to the movies, like on a Saturday we’d go out.  I used to have to baby-sit at that time and make some money to go to the movies, even after working all week.  Because every body had to pull their you know – 

Pitch In. 

Yeah pitch in.  So if you went to the movies, you went to the Palace and after you came out you went to have something to eat and you went to another movie.  

Could you stay all day if you paid . . .?

Oh yeah, because you had two movies, you had the cartoons, the coming attraction, did I say the news?

Nope.

We had the news, coming attraction, and the cartoons and all that for fifty cents.  You could stay there.  I sued to go to this place where all the kids used to go on Millbury Street.  It was a neighborhood theater - it was called the Rialto.

Ok.

And we used to go there for a dime and I would stay all day long.  And then when I would come home my mother would say – “Where were you”.  Because she would be looking for me to do this and do that – but she had enough of them at home to do it, but if I was home I would have to do this and that and you didn’t say “Ma – have the other one do it”  NO WAY – if she says you, you do it.  

Just do it.

Whether you came back and had to come back again we didn’t say “Oh ma,”  no no no.  That’s why I say today, since they took that respect away from the school, I thought that, once I heard that I says – the discipline ya know.  I knew once they took that away, I knew that’s never gonna work.  You’ve got kids today that have power over you – you do.  

You do – in a lot of ways they definitely do.

Yeah and you can’t. . I mean when we were kids we got a little discipline and it didn’t hurt us.  That’s why I say it wouldn’t hurt them to get a little tap – I don’t mean kill them.  (Laughing)  I mean if you didn’t listen or if you broke something or hit someone you’d get a little red hand – 

Yup with the ruler or – 

Yeah, it didn’t hurt us.  When we went to school we were all disciplined ya know and we respected the teachers.  We had nuns at that time and we respected them and ya know. . . 

Where did you go to school?

St. Mary’s parochial right down here in Worcester.  And then I went one year to high school but then I had to quit because I had to help my mother out – that’s how a lot of these big families were, ya know.  But I never went back to school after that, I just worked and worked and worked, ya know.  And then you got married and had kids and you’re still working.  The only thing is that I miss that discipline.  I mean you have to go out of your way to satisfy some of these kids – I think so.

Yes.  I agree.

It’s all that discipline – I wish they had never taken that away, especially in school because they don’t even respect their teachers.  Because they say – “well don’t you touch me”  -  I don’t mean to hurt them, but it’s just the way – I mean sometimes you need to punish them.  Years ago we had to stay after school.  

Yup.

Or if a class did something or someone did something and no one would say who did it then the whole class you say after.  And like today you wouldn’t dare squeal.  (Laughing)  And um, no really.  Where else were we. . . 
We were at the movies – we had all kinds of movies.

You said there were lots of movie theaters, right?

Oh, there were so many of them in Worcester.

The Palace - 

The Palace, the Water, the Capitol, Olympia, the Family, the Lincoln Rialto, there was another little place on Main Street near Worcester market.  And then there were a lot of these – where you found a theater you found a shoe repair where they used to repair shoes and there was a shoe shine.  If you went downtown on a Saturday you had all these little kids on the corners “Shoe shine sir?”  “Shoe shine?”.  And they’d get their shoes shined – I mean years ago that was it, if you were all dressed and your shoes weren’t shined that spoiled it.  Everybody had a shoe shine – yeah – shined your shoes like a mirror.  No years ago. . . and my loafers would be shiny as can be, oh yeah oh yeah.  It was nice in our days.  I liked the 40s and 50s.  I think it was a nice growing up generation – everybody didn’t have what we had today but you pitched in and you did it.  Like I said if you didn’t have a washing machine you scrubbed your clothes

You scrubbed your clothes – yup. . . 

and if you didn’t have a vacuum cleaner you swept.

Yup.

And every Saturday your halls were always cleaned.  

Oh really?

Yup on a Saturday my mother always said, you wash the front hall and you wash the back stairs.  And you swept the sidewalks and everything was cleaned on a Saturday.

Oh wow!

Yeah everybody did that – swept.  ‘Cause Sundays was, you got up Sundays to go to church and everything would be clean.  And the halls were always clean because if there was a doctor or a priest or anybody it was always clean – I mean nobody touched the front way.  And um. . . 

What were the bowling alleys that you used to go to?

Oh god, now I can’t even . . . I know that there was the Green, the Central, Courtney Bowling Alley, umm. . . 

So there were quite a few?

Oh, we had lots of bowling alleys – no matter where you went you could always find a bowling alley.  White City had a bowling alley, downtown, if you went to the Palace, um – somewhere underneath it there was another bowling alley. 

Oh really?

Yeah -  I don’t know if it’s still there but I know that there was a bowling alley there.  You had a lot of a . . . what less do I have.  Like I said there were a lot of places to go.  Like I told you um, Blue Goose, Blue Goose – 

Blue Goose – for spaghetti and meatballs right?

Yeah that was another place everyone used to go to – it was on a side street but everyone used to say – “we’re going to the Blue Goose” – ok we’ll go to the Blue Goose.  But there were a lot a lot of places that you could really go out.  Like if you went downtown, like out for the night with your husband or on a date or anything.  Of course you always went dressed up and if you went to the movies you took a bus.  Nobody had cars like they do today.  And it was quite an evening out, that’s how we had our evenings out – we’d go dancing and you were always dressed up.  No body went sloppy or anything – you got your hair done.  Oh yeah – it was nice it nice.  And um. . .

When. . . oh sorry. .  

What?

Oh I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

No no I was just trying to think of something, but I can’t think of it right now.

I was going to ask, like, you had said before on the tape that got erased about going to Coney Island after you were coming back from a dance –

Oh that’s what we’d do – 

 . . walking across the park.

After Coney Island – yeah you did.  You met everybody there – it was so packed and you’d stay there for along time.  And like I say everyone’s got their names in that, in a booth.  We always had a certain booth that is where we’d sit and everybody had their names down on it.  And if you didn’t have a date or anything after awhile you’d start walking home and if your feet were tired you’d take your shoes off and you’d walk through the park and the grass was nice and cool.  Oh yeah – in the park you used to see everybody sitting down.

Really?

Oh yeah – it was nothing like it is today.  Everything is changed.  It’s too bad it really is.  People could get along much better, ya know.  Like I say I think its all about that discipline.  I think if they hadn’t taken that away I don’t think the kids would be as bad as they are today.  And um, and they will stand there and they will argue with you, but years ago you wouldn’t dare argue with your mother or your neighbors because you had respect for them.  Like my mother, all the kids in the neighborhood would always call my mother “Babcha” – it means grandma.  They’d always say – “Hi Babcha, hi Babcha”.  And today they’d always say not my first name but Mrs. Courtney, “Hi, how are you Mrs. Courtney?”

What about the way that it has changed even around Southbridge Street, how um, there used to be a Purple Diner or how there was a mansion?

Oh yeah, well – Purple Diner.  I was talking to a friend of mine last night and if I go done there I am going to try to find that newspaper.  And she said I don’t know Theresa, I mean I don’t know where it is right now, but she said she thought she might have a  picture of what the four corners looked like.  I think she has that paper.  I’ll go down maybe tonight and she if she can find it for me.  Years ago you never thought of taking pictures.

Right, right.  

Blackstone River – kids used to go swimming there.  Where you see that – that little company – um, oh. . . . it took over the Blackstone.  I can’t think of the name. . . 

Is it on Southbridge Street?

No – its right on, ya know when you go up McKeon Road – ya know on the left hand side you see this little place. . . 

Oh where the parking lot is  - on the left?

Parking lot and then there is this little place there – but anyway that is where the kids used to go.

Oh really – swimming right there?

Yeah – and then we had, yeah and then there was this big big – right before you come Riverside and you are going down McKeon there used to be a cleaning place right there.  Right opposite Robinson Trial (?).  Like I say we had loads of textiles.

Yeah that is what you were saying.

Textiles, we had shoe factories, clothes factories, material factories – You had HH Brown shoe – that’s where they have these housings now on Grand Street.  That was a big, big company.  That’s why I say there are no good shoes anymore.    And um, what else can I think of.  See when I leave you I will think of so many things and I’ll say oh – “should have said that, should have said that.”  

Its ok – you have given me so much already.

Oh and we used to have carnivals.  The carnivals we had were nothing like today.  We had – it was nice carnivals, it was much cleaner and on a Saturday we had an aerial act and everyone used to stay there until 10:00 and there used to be people who would go up these high high ladders and we used to have little acts.  They’d go up there and dive into the water below.  And the prizes at the carnival we had were really nice.  It used to be down on the corner of Madison and Harding streets.  At one time there used to be this French church and every year they’d have the carnival come in and people would come from all over the city.  These carnivals today are really nothing – 

Yeah.

These carnivals aren’t like the carnival we had – we had some nice carnivals.  Nothing like the ones you have today.  I enjoyed our carnivals.  And the prizes were nicer.  I think today people still have a lot of what they won at a carnival.  They had nice dolls and nice prizes.  We enjoyed our carnivals – our carnivals were nice and there was no rowdiness or anything and they’d be packed and you’d meet everybody.  Carnivals were nice – they were nice carnivals.  What else. . . ??  Oh, and if you went with somebody who had a car we used to have these rumble seat cars.

Oh yeah?

You used to sit in the back and you’d get up on the thing and they’d have these little rumble seats -  it would look like a trunk and you’d pick it up and then you’d sit there and you’d put a kerchief on because your hair would blow all over the place.  Rumble seats were nice.  Churches?  Well everyone went to church like they should.  It was nice.  And the nuns were nice – they really disciplined you – it was nice.  There have been a lot a lot of changes, but like I say I liked that generation growing up.  I mean everybody does good but when you see as the gap goes by you say, boy, boy, it really changes – it’s not how it used to be.  I mean lets face it – everything is you push a button and its working – 

Yup. . .

No really. . .

It’s true it’s true – I mean look (referring to tape recorder in hand).  

Well that’s it – 

Well we hope it works this time anyways.

I know I know.  Years ago you didn’t have coca-cola, well I mean they had it but.  They had drug stores, you’d stop there and sit at the counter like you see in the old movies and you’d have a glass of coke and an ice cream cone, for like 5 or 10 cents you’d get almost like three scoops of ice cream.

Oh wow!

Yeah!  It was good.  And twin Popsicles were twin Popsicles.  I mean they were big ones.  That is why when I see them today I say – geeh look at the size of those Popsicles!  

Its like nothing.

Yeah.  And you have to pay I don’t know how much but they don’t have the big fat ones like we used to get.  Same thing with Milky ways – Milky ways were big and all we paid were a nickel.  Like I asked somebody one day, “Did anybody ever think of these chocolate snaps we used to have.  Like they have these vanilla wafers, but years ago they used to come in a box and they would be called chocolate snaps or vanilla snaps.  Chocolate snaps – I used to take them for lunch – I used to love them.  And we used to have Whoopie Pies – what do they call them today. . .???

Scooter Pies?  I think that’s what they are called.

Yeah – with the cream inside?

Yup.

But we used to get big ones and they were so delicious.  And then there is another thing you can’t find today is the old fashion and popcorn.  You used to get the old fashion and then you’d get the round or the square popcorn balls and you’d smash in the old fashion and you’d put it together and you’d have old fashion popcorn.  Ohh!!

Oh really?!

Yeah and you can not find it today.  That was – those I loved.  Everybody loved old fashion and popcorn.  It was made like a sandwich but only the old fashion was squashed in.  You could chew on that for awhile – it was delicious.  Those were good those were good.  There used to be loads of drug stores, as you went along you would always have found a drug store here or there.  And we had one right here in the neighborhood.  Maurice’s it was called.    And then they had shower baths down at the parks.  Years ago some of the houses didn’t have bathtubs or showers like they do today.  So if you wanted to you’d bring your stuff and go down to the park for a shower.  It was a big big area where they had the showers.  And. . .

What Park was that?

Crompton Park.

Ok, Crompton Park.

And no matter which park you went to they would always have showers.

Ok. 

People used to go and take showers.  My mother always used to go.  We did too but being a kid if you didn’t have a shower you’d have a washtub which you would fill with boiling water and bathe that way.  We’d all sit down and listen to the radio at home. 

Ok.  

Charlie McCarthy, we’d have a mystery story.  If it was late at night on a Saturday you’d have Inner Sanctum.  You’d put the lights down low and you’d have the coal burners going and if you picked up the lids the red flames would come and you’d hear squeaky doors and it would get scary – that’s how we used to amuse ourselves.  Funny books – I wish I had Funny Books today like we used to have years ago.  Oh, and we would swap and you’d say “what have you got for funny books”?  And we used to have Archie and Betty and things like that and then on a Sunday afternoon if it was raining or something you’d read al the funny books.  You’d have the radio on and perhaps you’d sit and play with dolls.  You don’t see anyone playing with dolls anymore.  We used to cut out dolls and all their clothing.  We’d make doll clothing and we learned how to sew and whatnot.  

Wow!

Whitall’s was a nice place to work, it was like family, we’d all stick together.  You’d wash your hair before going on a date and then the girls would help pin it up.  Oh yeah it was a nice place to work.

Very nice.  

The grounds were beautiful – it would remain you almost of Holy Cross –

Really?  Wow!

Yeah they kept it up nice with a lot of trees and kit was nice.  But now they let it go and there are a whole bunch of different factories coming in.  

Yup. 

Rotman’s is right where I was.  And the Electric Company used to be part of Whitall’s as well; they called it the Edgewood Mill.  It was a big, big place – it was a big place.

And what was it – there was just nobody to take over, the family passed away?

Evidently, evidently nobody – 

That’s too bad.

It is, it really is.  When you had a Whitall rug – you had a rug.  They had beautiful rugs, beautiful work.  It was nice, it was nice.  Anywhere I worked I liked anyways.  Like I say work will never hurt you.  And if you didn’t like one job you went and got another job.  There was no need to hang around – you could always get a job.