Transcribed interview with: Alice Johnsonby: Becky FlynnLocation of Interview: The HermitageDate: March 24, 2002
My voice is in that now (pointing to the tape recorder)? Yes. Okay, I had two brothers in the war. One got killed in Germany. The other came back, not in very good condition, and died in the hospital, the Veterans Hospital, after an injury that he didn’t realize was as dangerous as he thought. And, we went through the depression, and we had books that were like coupons. We could have butter so many times per week. We couldn’t buy all the butter we wanted. That was one of the vegetables we couldn’t…and gas, we had to be very limited on that. These two things we felt because we had to travel and do whatever we can for them. I remember I missed my brothers. They used to help me with the furnace that was downstairs, you know, with the wood. And then, being in the war, my two brothers…we were a family of five…we couldn’t afford many of the things. But, we had coupons. There were certain times…well, the only thing I remember, bananas, which were…well ,it wasn’t that we had to have coupons for it, but there were only certain times we could get it. And there’s gas…we had to have coupons for. We had so many coupons a month. Butter was so many coupons per month. They used to have a plan, you know, and tell you what place to go to to get food, because we were limited on our food. We would go to the schools and we had coupons, you know. We had our name registered there, and we would get things like flour, and sugar, and different things that were mostly for baking…so we could bake different things for ourselves. The most things we were limited were gas and butter at that time. Then it made it hard because my brothers were in the service. We had it hard on rent. So a lot of people got in together, to live together, and divided the apartments. Now, where did you live? Uh, let’s see. In Worcester, it would be Segill Street. Segill Street? Yeah. That was a poorer district. Then, a little further up on Vernon Hill, it was a little better. But, we lived a lot, or I lived a lot in the Jewish district. So, it gave us a chance to so things, you know, like, on certain holidays that they had, we used to light their candles or take them off so we could get paid a few cents. That’s why, as I said, I am mixing the depression with the war. Was it very similar, the kinds of things you went through…as far as the rationing and the coupons? No. It’s, like, a lot of food was not available that we wanted to. Our family, where there were two in the service, we would go to the school that our name was registered to. And, once a month we would get some food, like flour, and sugar, and vegetables, of some sort, that we would get. But, then, the boys coming back…we waited for them…and there was a long time that we would be good. Like, on the holidays, we’d make cookies for the boys, and we’d box them. In the box, we used to put…I think they do ‘em now, or they learned from us…they’d put popcorn in the box to keep the cookies really good and fresh. You know what I mean? And we used to send it to the boys. A lot of us in school…I was in grammar school…the teacher would have us write letters to the boys, you know, to keep their spirits up, especially around the holidays. And we would get news from them about how they were doing and how they were feeling. So, this was mostly, I felt more, the depression…I felt the war because of my brothers being in the service. My mother was limited. Of course, we cut down on our gas, our oil…whenever you heated your home. Right now, there is shortage of those. So, it kind of reminds us of the war again. And there were people that we knew, you know, that went to war, came back. We missed them when they didn’t come back. So, we knew families (inaudible). And we used to get together, you know, trying to help in any way you can. We did a lot of volunteering, either in the schools or in the houses, you know, wherever we could. Now, are there any questions that are on you mind that maybe you could bring my mind to something else? Sure. Where did you go to school? I went to school…oh, let me see…I went to sister school, but I started at Lamertine Street. There was a lot of people from the old country learning English, you know, to speak the English language. So, I started in the grammar school. And then my mother worked. We were fortunate. She used to do housework and could, at least, send me to, you know, grades and different schools, which were the sister schools. So, that way, it helped, you know, for me to get educated. What did you father do? My father used to work on the farm. And the farms came in like…my father used to work into a farm. So, he’d get cheese and eggs and butter for us to get. That was the way he used to get paid, you know. And it helped us an awful lot because, as it was, we were limited. We didn’t have that much, of course. There was another thing; my mother did, where clothing was concerned. We used to have…or, we used to buy a lot of potatoes because we used to make a lot of dishes out of potatoes; like pancakes, potato soups, salads. So, that way, it would stretch our food. My father worked on a farm and brought all of this cheese, eggs, milk from the farm. So, this helped us, you know, our family. And mostly, there were a lot of families that did the same thing. Oh and there is another thing that my mother used to do… when we used to have flour, we used to have the empty flour bags after. They were large ones because we bought a lot of flour, because, you know, it was cheaper. Individuals would be too much. So, we’d buy large varieties of it and she used to make my clothes out of it (the flour bags). You know, she would make nice skirts and blouses, and they were good enough to go…well, she had a way of bleaching them and everything else. And that would take care of clothing. And, of course, our shoes would be passes from each other all the way down. In other words, my sister would take her shoes and wear them as much as she can and then they’d be handed down to me. And then, there used to be carpenters and they used to tap the shoes and put on new heels. We used to go form shoe to shoe, from one to another. that would stretch our budget too. Now, are there any other questions that would come to your mind that you want to ask me? Were you working during the war? I was working, but, with that, you had to go to school until you were sixteen years old. So, I had to go to school for a while and then go to work…it was into a factory. The factory was…well, I did stitching. You worked until…well, you got up in the morning and went to work, and then you would come home at night. It was really more than eight hours. They weren’t thinking of paying eight hours. They paid us the lowest salary, but we didn’t care, it was money coming into the house. You said you had five in your family? There were five children. Where do you fit in? Are you the oldest…? I am the middle one. So, I used to help…they went to work, I went
to school. My younger brother
Do you remember the name of the factory you worked in? The New England Manufacturing Co. They’d have so much work to do until the contract ran out. I even worked on running pants and bras, you know. I used to take work home from the garter shop so we’d have money coming in. You’d sit down around and put the garters together. We’d bring them back at the weekend. That’s how we made a few more pennies for the house. Do you remember what you did for fun during the war? For fun? We used to go out into the backyard and throw balls, you know, footballs, baseballs…The school used to have evening, not evening classes only, but during the summer, when we weren’t in school, we used to go to the summer school and we used to make baskets. We used to make butterflies on, you know, a piece of paper, and we used to make a little frame around it. We made nice pictures with frames and (inaudible). We did a lot of weaving on baskets. We used to get to weave the baskets. We used to get quite a few of them. At the end of school, there used to be a teacher to teach us how to weave and put the baskets together, and that was what we used to do a lot of. Did you go to any dances or movies…? No. The movies were very scarce. The movies we did go to, I remember, were six cents. And that six cents idea…it seemed we’d earn five dollars (meaning cents) very easily, but that one cent…we didn’t know how we’d get it. And we worked very hard just to get that one cent. But, some of us would, kind of, get into the movie and let somebody else in. Sometimes, the manager of the show would know we were doing that, but he would make coffee and sit. As for soap…my mother used to make a lot of fat. She used to make soap for us. Of course, it was a very harsh soap. Well, to buy a piece of soap, you know, was more expensive. So, we used as much as we did from the soap from the fat…she used to make soap. Were you married? No. Not at that age. Not at that age? Not during the war? I got married, but at the time I got married, we were in the…mostly in the depression. When I was out of school, I went to work. And we worked in factory where we got a contract. We would work until the contract ran out, and then we would be laid off and find another factory to go to. Do you remember what year you were married? Oh, I was married very young, but I don’t remember the year. What did your husband do? My husband used to be a mechanic, an auto mechanic. And, naturally, there wasn’t much of that. So, a lot of his friends used to get together and they used to help one another on that…because gas was short. And I told you we had coupons. We had…rations, they used to call it. Rations. That’s what the coupons were. In fact, I had some, just about two years ago, in my drawer…I forgot all about them…I was going to keep them for souvenirs. The people cleaning the house destroyed them. Well, they didn’t realize how important they were. But, we were through. We weren’t using them anymore, but I wanted to keep them to show them to different people…what we were using. And a lot of the people that used to come from the old county, they used to come and stay with us because they wouldn’t get a job…because it was during the war…and there weren’t many factories opening up. If you did work in the factory, like I told you, you worked all day and at night. But, you had to go to school. There was a law. So, we went to work and school. You couldn’t go to work until you were sixteen years old. Now, you had two brothers that were in the war. Then, did you have two sisters also? I had two sisters, and they did the same. I had their shoes (she laughs) and their clothes…and then, what I couldn’t use, I had relatives or the next door (inaudible). We handed around our clothes an awful lot. We used to go to the Salvation Army to get some clothes or some different things. It was a place we could go, but our friends would help us by giving us clothes and exchanging clothes. My mother used to make them out of flour bags (she laughs). So, that’s the way we, kind of, (inaudible). Do you remember where you were when you found out that Pearl Harbor had been bombed? Yes. Well, that’s only recently. Oh, no, Pearl Harbor… Oh, Pearl Harbor? Yes, when the war started…when the Japanese…? Oh, I was in school. All the children were getting excited. Everyone was screaming and yelling, and wondering how could something like this happen to us…just like the idea of what just happened recently (meaning the 9/11 terrorist attacks). It’s a funny thing; we’re all in that same idea. So, anyone that saw that and was as old as I am…it seems all those memories came back to us, you know. That’s why they said we will remember it, because it’s just like the war we had before. Do you remember when you found out that the war had ended? V-J Day? Oh yes. When the war was over, we were sleeping. I mean, it was at night when we heard it was over. So, all we did was…everyone lost their fences, their boxes…and we made a big bonfire out in the middle of the road. Where I was, at a corner where there was a fountain that they had, we had put all the water…we let all the animals, you know, use it all up. But, nobody had a fence because we broke everyone’s fence. Everything that was loose was in the bon fire. The bonfire stayed and stayed, it seems every night, all night it ran. It didn’t make a difference until all the wood was gone, you know. So, that’s how we celebrated. Were there big celebrations in Worcester itself? Any kind of parade or…? Oh, the parades were for when the people came back from war. Some of them came back and some of them didn’t. That was what the parades were for. They were down Main Street, which was Main Street (inaudible). And you went down to them…down to the parades? Well, yeah. Naturally that would be our fun. And, if anyone brought a souvenir back, we kind of showed it off. You know what I mean? And, we were proud of the fact that we had it. Let me just take a look to see if I have anymore questions for you. Yeah, that way I could get to talking on something else. You bring my mind to something else. Do you remember ever listening to the radio at night? Did you have a radio in your house? We had a radio. We’d get together everynight. Not many people had radios. My brother used to fix the radio so we could hear the news and everything. We used to get together…that was the only way we used to get together…you know, to listen to the radio and know what was going on. But, now, things were getting a little better…the depression started coming in hard. So, mostly, everyone felt depression after the war. Do you remember listening to the president on the radio? Yes. Well, not many people had radios. Mostly, everyone went to whoever’s house had a radio and they put it one and listened to it like they do today. Did you listen to any radio programs like The Lone Ranger…? Yeah…The Lone Ranger…and different programs. I can’t remember all the programs we listened to, but it was all those programs that we have now that we get the old records playing all over again. What kind of music did you listen to? Well, it was, mostly, like the songs in school or something that you carried on from a dance, a dance that everyone tried to learn that number. So, we’d all call and talk and get together. Do you remember your views of the enemies, the Japanese? Do you remember talking about anything that was going on in the war…? No. Well, when my brother came home from the war…the difference in how he was. He wasn’t himself. He was very sick and he didn’t like to talk about the war. (Inaudible). We didn’t want to talk about the war. There were some places you could go to listen to them. (Inaudible). We use to exchange, you know, different things. Each family exchanged what happened in their family. I remember how we used to talk about it. So, it sounds like your community was very close-knit. Well, the nationality was a Lithuanian nationality. And the Polish used to be there, and the Jewish was into us, you know. So, you see, it was all the nationalities. No body…or, the only ones…well, that was before, so, I can’t say the blacks. It was everyone coming from the old county. The only was they could come here was if one of us was here who were in a home. So, we’d bring them back from the old country. You’d have to stay in a home. So, they’d come to someone that was here, you know…a foreigner that was here. And they would support them until they got a job. And that’s how we helped one another to get ahead…by living with one another and sharing our food with one another. And then, before you know it…where there were families together…two and three families were living together. As they got along, they kind of branched out and got a job, and then they…but, they couldn’t come from the old country unless they had someone to come to. Like, one person could be living and having a home, and that was the only way they could come to…what do they call it…to volunteer for them and to make sure they got a job and they’d have someone to live with. Now, what part of the old country are you from? Lithuania. Vilna. Did you live there when you were little? No… Did your parents come from there? My parents came from there. They still own some parts in Lithuania. When they were out there, it was very bad. The Germans took over. My mother and father, they were married. They were from different parts of Lithuania, Vilna. The Germans took over all their property and they had to learn German, speak German, or go to school in German because you couldn’t get anything unless you spoke German. So, they took us all over and we were under the German flag for the time being. The, we gradually branched out. When did they come over here (to America)? Do you remember what year it was? I wouldn’t remember. But, it was before you were born? Yeah. Do you remember when they dropped the bomb on Japan? No, that was what I had said, we were at school. We were all (inaudible) because we didn’t know about it. But, we knew that the war was over. And that’s when the bonfires…we’d get together no matter where we were. You know, we all got together. Do you remember when Roosevelt died? No, I don’t. But, I knew he was my president and that he was very good and that his wife helped him an awful lot because he was an invalid. So, we knew about that very well. That’s what were learning in school. See that was our subjects that we were learning. Do you remember them talking about the war at all in school? What? Do you remember them talking about the war in school? The war? Well, yes. It was a subject that we’d all be talking about. But, we were getting ahead because, now, we were getting into the depression. You see, it had to go on. War had to go on. Like war now…we had a war…we didn’t know, after the war, what we would be doing. You know all these people that lost their jobs…they are loosing their jobs today…so, they are going to have a change like we had a change at that time…in our war. This is like another war. Did you see any differences in Worcester during the time, before the war, and after? Well, before the war, there wasn’t much money around. There wasn’t many stores out, not many factories. During the war, there wasn’t much money to invest. Our homes…that is why we used to share each other’s homes. And that’s why we shared each other’s clothing. This is why: because there was no money to be invested. Gradually, that came up, and that’s where the depression came in. Each got ahead with the different things they were doing during the depression. So, that’s the second step…I worked during the depression. I guess that’s what we’ll get now. What did you do after the war, as far as work…? You went back to work to try and get ahead. Everyone was trying to get a home, getting out of the people’s homes that they were living in. Everyone was a boarder. So, the boarders would be getting jobs and helping…well, paying back a lot of the things. They were advancing in the life, getting a job and helping themselves. They were raising families and getting married. That’s what the next step was. So, I think that is what we will have now. People at my age really remember it because, now, we remember this year and then how it was after and how the sadness is now. This was a plane, but ours was the people that were lost back on the grounds of Germany. Mine was Germany. We had a lot of members there. Is there something we forgot? I don’t know… You know, after you’re gone, I’ll say, oh, why didn’t I tell her about this, why didn’t I tell her about that. But, I didn’t know the subject you wanted me to hit on. Anything you want. Anything you remember. Well, these are the things I remember. I mean, I remember the depression…I mean the depression coming in after the war. I remember going and picking blueberries to make money. Go and clean…well, like now, they have the same thing. It seems history is repeating itself. These are the things we did. Now, people are looking for work. People be helping one another…(inaudible). Do you remember when the boys came back; do you remember any of the women being forced out of their jobs in the factories? I do remember, because a lot of times we were in the factories. A lot of us women worked men’s jobs. They helped us to get along. When we came back…I mean, when they came back, of course, there were a lot of depression before that. So, everyone was boosting each other out of work to try to get work. And the men were taking over the women’s jobs. What they were doing…they were in machine shops. I was in the machine shops too. The other one, like that would be in Connecticut, there was an airplane place. There used to be a lot of women working in that factory. You know, that was planes. They were trying to take all the jobs when coming back. So, the women were getting out of the factories and having families now that the boys were home. The boys were taking over. Of course, there were a lot of arguments (inaudible), but they gave them a chance to do their own home. And there wasn’t that many boarders because they went out build, to be able to work, and have a home of their own. They built their families too. Did you work with your sisters? Did they work with you? Or what kind of work did they do? No. They were lucky to get an education. Like, my brother, who was in high school, wanted me to get some education. So, he went to work so I could go to school. He wanted to see me…seeing I was picking up very good in school; he wanted to make sure I was in school. So, he went to work a bakery. You needed bread. That was one thing that went very well. So, he went to work in a bakery so I could have a school education. That’s where my life comes in a little bit. Now, what did your mom do again, during the war? Well, during the war, she used to do housework for the rich people. She used to do the housework for the rich people…and I was still young…so, she used to take me with her. That’s how I got to learn a lot of manners. I used to play with the little kids while my mother was washing the floors and doing their cleaning and their shopping. She was, I’d say, a housewife to the people that had money. And she used to take me with her. So, that was the only thing because I was the only one. The others were all at school. So, seeing I was the youngest, she used to take me with her. That’s how I learned a lot. And she continued that work all the way through the war? Yes, she did. The Jewish were a lot for it, a lot of the rich. So, how it was…my mother worked for one family. Then after they’d get to know each other, they’d hire my mother. Another housing, and another housing…that’s how she kept going…from house to house to help, work, and get the house right. What religious affiliation did you have? Did you have one? I have Lithuanian. Religiously. Catholic, or… Catholic. Catholic. Okay. Do you remember the church during the war? We went to church everyday. My mother used to be a churchgoer. So, the church that we used to go, we used to have parties, like potluck. You know, everyone would bring something. That’s how we used to buy the food and have those kinds of parties. That’s how we used to come together too. And we had a Sunday school we had to go to. You know, you had to learn the religion. Do you remember what church it was? St. Casmir’s. It was on Providence Street now. And the Vilna was built after. It’s on the hill. I grew up at St. Casmir’s. I used to be with the nuns after school and help them cook. Different fathers that we knew…my father and other men that had to do that kind of work…used to bring food from the farm. The nuns used to prepare them and can them (the food). And I used to help them to can while I was at school. You know, if I didn’t have any work, that’s how I started before I went to work. I was with the nuns all the time, helping them can. That was my enjoyment. I just had a question, but I think I lost it. Do you have any pictures from World War Two? No. Nope. Anything else you can remember? Right now, I can’t. It seems my mind was going around, but like it came to me again about people sharing each other’s home. And when they came back from war, they were all getting ahead a little bit. They started building homes. Well, not building homes, renting homes because the money was scarce. If they were working, they were getting ahead. All right. That seems to be everything. Let me just look through (papers being flipped). Well, shut this off until we get something (pointing to the tape recorder).
Tape? Yep, there’s a tape in there. When is your birthday? August the first, 1915. See, I am out of the war. Do you remember your address when you were in the war? I mean, where you lived in (during) the war? Yes. Ledge Street. Light Street? Ledge. It was off of Millbury Street. That’s where we had boarders living with us. It was a short street and in that street there’s a bend. That’s interesting. All right, I think I have everything. Okay. Anything that comes up that you want to know. But, I know that Lithuania was taken over by the Germans. You couldn’t do anything because we had to speak German. That’s why a lot of people that weren’t from Germany learned German. You had to speak it otherwise we would get into…and my aunt was a doctor out there. We owned a lot o property. My mother and father owned a lot of property out there. So, they were rich people. They had maids. That ain’t on that (she laughs as she points to the tape recorder). You can put that in. I mean, I come from a family that…you know, the Germans were involved. You should put that in there (pointing to the tape recorder). I think it’s (the tape recorder) on. Yeah, it’s on. Do you remember the stories from the people that were coming over from Lithuania that boarded at your house? Oh, yeah, they were a lot of sad ones, bad stories. My uncle was
a prisoner. In fact, he is still
Now, how did he get over here? He wouldn’t tell. He wouldn’t tell anything? No. He escaped, you know. He wouldn’t talk about how he escaped or anything. He didn’t want to give us any because he was afraid that something might slip. Of course, we had to give him money to go along. That’s why he went to New York. He went to Boston and became a lawyer. So, that was his title for the time being. And his daughter was the opera star. Then, she moved to New York. That was their next step. That’s all we know about them. Wow. That’s interesting. That was the part that would be interesting, instead of all the other parts I gave you. Well, we like to hear everything that you experienced. Well, that was the experience I had. We couldn’t talk or anything. My mother…I lived with my aunt…and she used to go to Lithuania every so often. My nephew was a pharmist. He was in Worcester. He moved and we couldn’t find him. He moved to Lithuania because there was a lot of property that my mother and father had that he inherited. So, he wanted to go there, and we still don’t know if her is there, you know, living there now. See, now that’s the part that’s more interesting. That is interesting. Good. Well, thank you for everything. Your welcome. I hope it helps. It will. It definitely helps…it’s very interesting. (The tape stops and then starts back up again because Alice remembered something). You said your aunt… My aunt, my mother’s half sister, had a farm in Grafton. That’s where they made a couple of visits, because she used to have a vegetable garden…and all the vegetables they used to have. And she used to work for Parkers making all their pies and everything. So, you know, nobody would trace them. Now, that was your aunt that worked there? My aunt had farm. From the farm she worked with Parkers…Parkers which is very popular out near Worcester (inaudible). Then she went to the old country and my cousin, that was a pharmist, went out there. I don’t know if he is still there because the police were looking for him because he was dealing the drugs. So, we lost all track of him. So, that’s it. That’s the part that I didn’t want to talk about, but I did. I figured I’d tell you everything else that leads to it. So, I don’t think I did any harm because it was so long ago. My God, it’s thirty, forty years ago. So, you never talked about your uncle back then, just in case? No, we did, you know, when we were younger. When we’d get together, we used to razz my mother. My mother used to get mad because we used to razz her. My mother used to write to them in Lithuania and send clothing, pack clothing and everything. there used to be a place on Irving Street that they’d get all the clothing and sent it to the old country. You know, all our clothes we didn’t want. We wouldn’t give them to the Salvation Army. We’d send it to them. All that part is what I should have told you, but I didn’t know if it was alright to talk about it. after I was talking to you and everything else, I come to think there was no harm in it. Like I said, anything you remember that you want to share… That was the part that was very important. (Alice goes on to repeat some information about her uncle that she had already mentioned and then the interview is ended.) Well, thank you very much! Your welcome.
|