Began by discussing the intimidation of the tape recorder and she told me about when she waitressed and they installed a speaker for placing orders and how nervous it made her. She worked their after high school until she got married. She attended Commerce High School in Worcester, which was a "business" school. Waitressing was a good job because:

Evelyn Grahn(EG): There wasn't much of else to do in work in those days.

Caitlin Farrell(CF): So, after high school you went right into waitressing?

EG: Yes, that was my job. That was one job that I got. As I say, the few that did go into business had good because there was a lot of industry and shops. It was a very busy city. Plenty of work, you know, normally. But you had to have all the Horace Mann stuff, you know. But, it worked out, you know, because people had to eat, and they'd come and I met a lot of people. Working with the public, you learn a lot of things. So, that's how it went, and fortunately, but before I got that far, then we had depression, after the war, the first, or the second war, whatever it was when it started. And then we had, and we were all so busy, kids, staying within reason, and living at home and parents and things, I was thinking this morning, all the things we had to, about food, you know, that was before, everybody had butter. Then margarine came along, white margarine. And boy oh boy, nobody wanted that. So then they made little packages, when you bought a bought a package of margarine, cause we had ration stamps, as you see [she had them for me to look at]. And there was a little packet of coloring in that and everybody sat and mixed up the coloring, made the right color. (laughter) And thought it was butter. And a lot of us are still eating it, cause I remember never having butter because it was rationed, but Oh, to eat that. But it was pretty when you knew you colors. So, that was one of the little things that you don't think of very often. Until you see margarine or butter come out on the table. But, and food. I don't know what to go onto next. There were so many things. [Laughs]
And rationing, too, they had drives to collect things, you know, they collected fat, course, cause they made soap. And you had buckets to collect any fat. And then, um, that was helping. And, I don't know what. There was no televisions then, there was the radio. And we had big records, 78's I guess they're called now, the large size. I don't know what they did with them, but they collected them, I remember, a [searching for the word "legion", there's one right up on Greenwood St…describing what a legion is..] legion, they had a, they came up, we lived on Vernon Hill, on Ames St. And they came along on Sunday afternoon. And everyone was sitting out on the porches. And you didn't have gas, so you didn't, most people just walked, or went to the park up there, and they came along with an old horse and team and they had a Victrolla, the one you crank up, you know, playing. And they were collecting records for our..oh, isn't that awful? I can't, that's the way it is when you get this age, everything leaves you, you know what you want to say but you can't get it out. [still looking for word legion..we thought of it later]. Well, anyways, so, we had, my mother had an old record player, a Victrolla, because we had been given a radio when we got married. Bert's folks, everyone of the boys that got married got a Sears silver-toned radio, a cabinet, and so it was a piece of furniture to add to our collection. So gave up old records, and they were so happy, they'd come upstairs and pick up records and they played them..you know.

CF: Just to entertain the soldiers?

EG: Yeah. And so that was one of the collections going on, then after that, well, Everything was going for the war effort. And when, um, as the fellas grew up and they got their numbers, they had to go and everybody had a number and we always prayed it wouldn't come up.

CF: Did your husband go?

EG: No, he never did. He, ah, he graduated from high school before me. So, he had gotten work in the city. He was a mechanic. He loves mechanics. He can do anything in that respect. But, ah, he, as I say, his folks lived at the end of the street. And they had, the market they traded with was up on Vernon Hill and they had a man there who would come out to the country people and take orders and then come and deliver it. And when he came down, down Gramma's house, he became very friendly, they liked him there and she'd give him a cup of coffee when he came, you know, and visit. And then she said, 'I got another boy out of school. I hope he can get a job somewhere.' And he said, 'I'll see what I can do.' So then when he had gotten back to the store up on the hill there, there was a bread salesman from one of the break companies, and he said, 'Need anybody working for Born (?) Bread?' Cause, that's what was on Summer St. And he said 'Yes, there is an opening.' But, ah, it's gotta be, it's, just you know, after high school. 'He can grease the trucks and gas them up after that.' You know, But, oh, just the word "truck" and Bert was in his mind. So, he took the job. But, we weren't married then, just going together. And then, he stayed in Born Bread and he was head of the whole garage. And they, when he retired from there, they had, in Fitchburg, they had a little outfit that belonged to them. And he knew his way around there. And he repaired trucks and he was on 24 hour call in the winter. They had chains, you know.

CF: To put on the tires?

EG: Yes. And we didn't have a phone to begin with. His folks, when they first moved down here, there wasn't a telephone, there was one at the top of the street. So, everytime one of the children were born, they had to go up and borrow the phone. So, then when they grew up a little bit more and started to work, they got a phone down there. So, Bert had a phone when he was at home. But, we didn't on Ames St! But then we got one, but, we hated to hear it ring..when it was a storm.

CF: Oh, because then he'd have to go to work! [Laughter]

EG: But, as I say, he liked it. He stayed there a long time. He ended up in Hartford. Because, as the company was bought up, it was bought up in later years. Not the way they do now, they just gulp them right down! But, he had a choice either to go to the plant in Hartford or in Philadelphia. So, it was nice, his last ten working years he was down there. We never moved down there. Where we are here, he could come home in an hour, "Without a traffic light" he used to say. Until he got stoped one day, then he took a little longer, because it wasn't worth it. But, that's how come we're still here-I'm still here.

EG: So, but, ah, that's modern talk. Well, then of course, when Beverly was born it was food again. We, everybody, had Victory gardens. Oh! We had a beautiful one. The three lots here belonged to his parents, and as each boy married, they had it divided into three. So, we had started the Victory gardens, before, none of us had built yet. We'd come home, and the men would come home, and Val(?) would come, and his grandfather would have all the tools from his farming days and he worked in a shop up in Worcester. And we had beautiful gardens down here.

CF: Here, before the houses were built?

EG: Yes, there were no houses. Then, they put up the house, here. They started their family. And that house there (points to house next door) was made by Sears Roebuck, it was bought out of a catalog just like you buy..

CF: Oh wow!

EG: It was just like the picture in the book. Now, I don't know now. It's still the same family. But, it was a lovely house and all the shrubbery went with it. The whole thing, when it was ready. And each, it was marked, and my brother in law, there, he was a carpenter by trade. And he worked in the shops in Worcester, for Newton's(?) carpentry. And the things were marked, this goes here one after the other. And, this is a well built house.

CF: Did he put it together himself?

EG: Yes, he put it together himself. They all put it together themselves. They helped each other, the boys. So, well, then after he built, we got married, as I say, we lived down on Ames St.

CF: When did you get married?

EG: We got married in 40, 1940. And, we lived on Ames St, and it was a three decker. Oh, it was a nice one. It had big rooms, you know, and I had lived in this little small place in the Village with my mother because she was a widow. But, Bert, he had never lived in any multiple story house. So, it was nice. We had nice people upstairs. He played a little acordian. And there was music. And the tenant, the owner, was downstairs. And, it was just a lot of nice people, up there. And we could go over to the park. And, it was easy to get downtown. You could walk downtown. Cause, you know, if you had the time. Cause, the gas was still, you know. And you couldn't buy a new car, that was out. You just had to keep fixing the old one.

CF: Did you have a car then?

EG: Yeah, oh yeah. He was never without a car. He built cars practically, in the end. In fact, there's an old one out in the garage here, under cover. It's old, but, it's a classic.

CF: Oh wow.

EG: It just goes in the family. He said, let Bev have it. So, it's under cover, but. It's a 1931 Ford, Roadster, you know. And, but, they're very popular. When we go to the automobile shows. And, we're always looking for parts. We'd go there and he'd say, you be looking for, I don't know much about cars, but, a certain part on the wheel, like a hubcap of a certain kind. And you walk around looking if someone's selling them, cause it was like, and he went all over, and he bought parts, and he bought old cars. And he just loved doing it. So, this one here is ours. And it's blue with a roadster, I mean with a, a rumble seat, you know.

CF: Oh wow, that's really cool.

EG: And he had it in parades in the city. With, when they have them in the summer time. But, that was the way it was. Finally, it got so you could drive. And in between, here, came, there we had a first, when we were married, our first refridgerator. Before we had the ice boxes, you know. All the houses were built with, in the back hall, most of them had porches, then the kitchen, and then the back hall. And in the back hall, there was an area, with a tray built into the floor with a drain, for the ice to go down. And, um, when we got married, we bought a refridgerator. We had been, ah, to, 38 and 39, the World's Fair in New York. That we went to because I had an aunt and uncle who lived on Long Island, so if we could get the gas, we could drive down, and have a place to stay, you know. And, oh, that was two beautiful fairs. All it was, was about Futurama, this is what you're going to see in the future. And, so we saw modern kitchens, you know, and all the things, we're wishing we could someday have. And some of it was so unbeleivable, they'll never have that. And now..

CF: And now, look at what's out there!

EG: Yes! [Laughter] So, we just enjoyed seeing all that stuff. And we knew, but, it just had a little hanging box in the middle for the freezer part, you couldn't put much in there, it hung there, like a little..just like a picture when you opened it. But, it held until we got the next one, which was much nicer. You know, a little bigger, and then, well, when we had the gardens (the Victory Gardens), we had to can and take care of the things, you couldn't just eat it all, you know. So, then, they called it the Worcester Extension Service, up on Harvard St. And that was a place where you could learn all about agriculture and they would be on the radio, talking and telling how to things. But, they ran classes on cooking and canning. And that was very nice, and I took the bus, because I didn't drive. And, up there. And learned how to can, you know and watched them doing it. Because, it's a job, you can't do it alone. You need two, I mean if you're going to do anything big, I mean, you need hot water and out, and then boiled. But it worked out. And we were so proud of our glass jars, with peaches in them.

CF: Is that from the Victory garden that you canned?

EG: Yes, well not the peaches, those we'd buy when they came on the market. But, the other foods, string beans, and everybody'd say, Oh, you don't know how many string beans I did today. Or tomatoes. In fact, last year, I did a few tomatoes in juice. Because, Shirley had such a big garden, and her husband had died since. And Spag used to give all the tomato plants, and every year, you'd go down to Spag's and you'd get a whole fistful of tomato plants. And, they were very good ones, as a rule. With a little care, they grew very well. So, she had a lot more tomatoes than I did. She comes around with a basket like an old lady, and everybody waits for Shirley and takes tomatoes. So, as I say, at the end of the season, she says, Come on take some. So, I took a lot of them, and I was by myself so I poked around at it. And, it was good. It wasn't too many jars, it wasn't like a dozen jars or anything. But, three jars, and to me, that was a real treat. And I hadn't forgotten how to do it. But, we had, I still had the books. So, that's part of growing up.
I grew up in the Village. Now I'm going back a little. Quinsigamond was a little city all by itself.

CF: Right.

EG: It had all the things, you didn't have to go to town. They had, oh, they had an A& P store, they had, First National, then they had another one. There were three, stores like that. There was the meat market, three or four meat markets, three good meat markets, two were by Swedes cause, there were mostly Swedish people down there at that time. And, ah, Swedish bakery, and a one big store, with Walsberg's(?), it was like a department store, you could buy clothing, and cooking utensils, and anything like that. And, a shoe store. One shoe store, one shoe maker, one Chinese laundry. A little Chinamen that lived there, and he had, you'd go in, and he'd do his ironing, and nice white shirts with stiff collars. And the shoe maker was in the same building with him. And, one gas station. And, next to that was the lumber yard. With the little stuff that men needed, you know, in the garden, I mean, when they're working. So, ah, then, right in the very corner, the center of the Village, where's it joined, they just, last Sunday they moved a church, the Baptist Church there, and that was from Stebbins Street, cause there were four or five churches there. And no liquor. Nobody could come over the railroad tracks, and, it was, um, there was a package liquor store but, people fought it, so anyways.
.
CF: How come?

EG: They just didn't want it. Millbury Street was full of bar rooms, all the way. So, if anybody really wanted it, they could go there. So, it was, there was so many churches, it was just, not that they were so religious, but, they, it was in the papers, We were going to sweep Quinsigamond's, swept clean and kept that way. But, now its different, you don't know anybody, you knew everybody then, when you came down to go on the trolley cars. And, um, you'd hear Swedish spoken.

CF: Did you speak Swedish yourself?

EG: I did, I grew up with it at home. And, I still do. I talk Swedish to myself a lot. [Laughs] But, I mean, now, it's caught on, now the young people, even younger than I, they've got this heritage bug now. Cause, I do, I translated, for a man, he's younger, he's quite a bit younger than I, and his, he had papers from his great grandparents. And, he asked me to translate. And I worked so hard at it. But, it came out fine. And it was real good training. And since then, at church, they've sent people that had translations. But, now I can't see anymore. So, I stick to my own language. If I could only write it and read it the way it used to be. But, ah, Quinsig was a good place to grow up, and the school, and the teachers, a lot of them lived in the Village or near by. So, they'd walk to school and we waited for them. And then, Providence Street junior high was built. So, I spent my 8th grade up there. And then, to Commerce. Then we were sophomores when we got up to Commerce High.

CF: Is Commerce High a public school?

EG: Yes, Commerce High was public, but, it's gone. Just like everything else. But, it was a business school. But, we had languages. If you took Latin, you were going to college. But, otherwise, it was French and Spanish. Now, [laugh] my husband took Spanish, because everyone said that's easy. And we girls leaned on French, never could talk French, but we know the songs, we know the tunes. But, it's funny ah, I mean language, I mean, now, if you speak Spanish, it's everywhere. So, the world has changed so, for me it's unbeleivable.

CF: Growing up in Quinsigamond, did you go into downtown Worcester a lot for fun?

EG: Oh yeah, yes. Of course, when you were at Commerce High, then you're in the city everyday. And, I worked for a jeweler in the Village, they had a nice jewelry shop also. And, ah, there were several nice ones downtown. And, he would repair something, and they were in touch with one another, and he needed a certain part. So, he'd say, when you're on your way home from school, stop at such and such a place. So, I was his errand girl. And then I worked in the store and sold greeting cards during the summer. And, you know, I spent a little bit of time there, that was right up on Whipple St. And, there was a post office, and ice cream shop. There were three, well the drug store, they all had, the drug stores, all had a bar, you know an ice cream bar. And then there was a Greek store. And he had a nice little ice cream palor. With the chairs and the table around, and ah, he sold a lot of fruit. His window was all full of a nice arrangement of fruit. But, they lived, him and his family, they lived up on Whipple St, too, up on Stockholm St. The streets were all Swedish names.

CF: Yes, I noticed that driving down.

EG: Yes, yeah. So, ah, that's how..and then the school. And now look at the beautiful school they've got there.

CF: Yes, it's really nice.

EG: Gosh, I..and, ah, a library. We had to be so quiet in the library. But, we walked, I lived on Tappin (?) St. which was quite a ways down. And from there we had to walk to Providence St. Junior High. But, up past the mill. There were short cuts when we got over 146, it was so tied up at the top. But, we walked and got home that way. For high school we could, ah..

CF: Did you take the trolley? Or?

EG: What?

CF: To get to high school?

EG: To high school, yes, we took the trolley. And, we bought, bus tickets, ah, trolley tickets. Bus tickets after. They had, the car barn they called it, was down up by Lincoln Square up by the Courthouse. All the trolley tracks went underneath the building there, into the building there. And they had, you'd go down there after high school and you could buy your tickets. They were five cents apiece I think. And, ah, yup. And then, sometimes, as we got older, one of the girls, they'd probably have a father that let them drive, learned, or taught them to drive. But, there weren't too many kids who had cars. Not the way it is now. And, of course, at the school there wasn't any place to park. Now it's so full of cars. But, ah. It was…well. I don't think anybody suffered too much.

CF: Even during the Depression?

EG: And, during the Depression, well, that, too. Everything was so cheap. And, newspaper, well, the Telegram was 2 cents, the Gazette was 2 cents. We had two publications a day, you know, one'd come in the morning. And, stamps were very cheap. Now they're going up every year. Oh, and food. There was a market on the bottom of Pleasant St. That was, my mother and I, thought that was a wonderful place. I've forgotten what the name of it was, but on weekends, on Saturdays they'd have a special. For a dollar you could get a whole, brown bag, you know craft bag. And they would, their special was, you could get a whole dinner in parts, you know, potatoes and vegetables and a piece of meat and for a dollar, and, oh, some bread or rolls. Put it all in. And I remember my mother used to say, you go up today and bring one home. We ate on that. So, it was good. But, my mother went to work because she was a widow. And she went to work for families in the city. You know, they advertise, and they have a lot of places where you could, ah, you go up in the morning to look for jobs, you know. And she got into some very nice families on the west side, Jewish families. And they became like aunts to me. Because my mother would do their work. And then, they had a daughter that got married, and they'd say to her, you have to go work for her and keep her house like you do mine. [Laughs] And, by the time I got married, I had wedding presents from Aunt Daisy and people I didn't know just from my mother working for them. But, ah, so, it was, and it was really just a crazy way, some people were just fortunate to have it and others didn't. Let's see, then I got work, after I got married, I, ah, and Beverly was born, she was born in '44. But, before she was born I had an aunt that worked in a club in Worcester where rich people were members. And she worked as a waitress there. And she said, "I'm going to talk to the steward and see if you can't get a-" It was just part time work, when there was parties and they catered to all their members. So, then, I did. And my first job was at a big wedding, an outdoor wedding, in a tent. And all I had to do was just pour soda, you know, out of a big punch bowl. That was my beginning. But, I stayed with them until Bev was born. And, ah, I learned a lot, and saw beautiful homes, and how they do things on the other side of the tracks. [Laughs] It was a real, um, and then after she was born, she was premature so I had, she was, very hard to take care of, after. I mean I wouldn't let her out of my sight. But, she grew up and ah, did very well for herself in the world. And I went back to the club and then I was on call, just for, ah. In fact, when President Kennedy, when he started out in politics, he was campaigning in Worcester in the mornings, you know, before people were going to work. And he was standing at City Hall handing out cards and people, you know, saying, "Will you give me your vote?" I don't, it was Congressman I guess, that was the big job. And I got a call from the club that day, and they said, "We're going to have breakfast, and it's going to be a very small one. It's almost one to one service. And you have to be right out, and don't linger around there." And, ah, in the morning, the girls that did come in, we had one room, and it was just the business men that owned the shops in Worcester. We knew them all because they had parties, and cocktail parties, and we heard their names, you know. And you'd say, Oh, that's the shop my husband works in, or that's where my brother works. And, they gathered, and by golly, there he was. The handsomest young man, the same age as me. And, ah, so, we saw him, that particular morning. And then he was off, for every town, he had to appear all over the place. So, we went through that, and then the horrible day when he ended, when his life ended. And, ah, Roosevelt was our president for many years.

CF: And how did you feel about President Roosevelt? Or the Village? Was there a lot of support for him? Or?

EG: I think, I think everybody liked him. And they'd listen to his fireside talks. Of course, at night, oh, I'm jumping back and forth.

CF: Oh, no, that's fine.

EG: Is it alright? I'm in one war, and then back to another. (laughs) We, when the first one was at. We had seen, at the New York Fair, that television was coming. And we saw, you know, there, they demonstrated, and that was how it was going to be. We were just going to see these pictures. Otherwise, it was to go to the movies. And, every movie we'd go to, you'd see wonderful news. You know, not just a flash, it would be, almost like a whole film. From (Café?) News, and everyone had a different news. And, you were right in, it was just a movie, but we were right in the cities where the troubles were. So, it was interesting in that way. And then when my sister-in-law, Shirley's mother, they got the first television in our family. Other than that, it was just the radios. And of course the boys had grown up with the earphone, Amos and Andy, they had to listen with earphones, cause it was…And then, when that came, we'd all go visit them. We'd sit on the floor and all around. To see the first programs. And then, at night, we'd have to go home before it got dark if we didn't take the car. Cause there were blackouts, you weren't supposed to be out walking. We had to walk all the way up to Vernon Hill to get home. And, when the sirens went off, cause we were practicing, and you knew it was going to happen, but you didn't want to run into the man that was the Defense Director. They were out watching which houses showed light, you know, and they..so.

CF: Was that like a scary thing, with the blackouts?

EG: Yeah, oh yeah. We couldn't have, you know, there had been so much terrible bombing in England. And, ah, you never knew if it was going to come here. So, they had leaders that were in charge of that. So, we'd walk, but we'd always get home in time. And, ah, everything went in its own way, you know, you get used to it. What else was I going to say, thinking of it…Course, there was Pearl Harbor- that was a Sunday afternoon.

CF: Yes. How did you hear about that?

EG: That, we had a radio, we still had the radio. And, we were listening. And, golly, it was, that was just, it just made you, I get goose pimples to this day just thinking about it. And, from then on in, it was. Then work started. If you want work, you could have a war. That's what everyone'd say, We'll get work when we get a war. We've had so many different ones now, I don't know which is which, where one ends and another begins. And we're still in it.

CF: Was there a lot of work in the factories?

EG: Yeah, when they started up again.

CF: Had they been closed before Pearl Harbor or?

EG: I really don't remember that too much, whether they were closed or not. But, Bert was working, and everybody was eating bread. [Laughs] And the trucks were going. But, my brothers and brothers-in-law here, they worked, Norton's was busy all the time. And, ah, Crompton Noles(?), that was a busy place. And American Steel, everybody worked there that lived in the Village years ago. But, that, little by little, newer things came in.

CF: Was that a big force during the war? Working for American Steel, did a lot of people?

EG: I think it was, yeah. And, course, you'd see flags and stars and Gold Star mothers. And, groups, like, girls, office girls, my neice next door, she was telling me when we started to talk about this, how groups would go up to, we had Camp Devens and Camp Edwards, but Camp Devens was the closest. And they'd go up with, just for entertainment. And, you know, sit and talk to the soldiers coming home from the wars. And, they, a lot of them didn't live around here, but they were stationed there and they were homesick. And she said, we'd go up in a group and they'd have some drinks, you know, coffee, and whatever they had bought, and they had cakes and squares. And, then they had music so they could dance. And, others just wanted to sit and visit and talk and tell about their homes and where they came from. So, Nancy said, that was a real, for her, she thought that, she was working in the city, and she's from Maine. She was out of town herself, so she knew how they felt. So, that's ah, but, American Steel made big things, it was a big shop. Now, it's all gone. And, ah, it's unbeleivable. We could hear them at night. There were different mills. Like, it was called the rolling mill. You could stand up on Vernon Street and see these read hot things roll down the ramp from the furnaces. And then, they cooled as they came down. And the men were working in there. And it was wide open, summer and winter, because it was so hot.

CF: Wow.

EG: But, they had long, instruments, to hold and push them around, almost like oars on a boat, you know, to steer. And they were noisy, those things when they came rolling down. And everybody'd say, "Boy, the rolling mill's working tonight." And, ah. And, carnivals, would come up to the corner. At the square up there, where there's horrible traffic there now. And that's where we'd cut across the field up to Providence St Junior High. But, there'd be carnivals up there. And, everybody in the Village would walk up. I never saw a carnival in the Village, though, just church affairs and bizarres and rummage sales.

CF: Was the church a big part of life in the Village?

EG: I think so, yes, it was. And, especially, holidays. Candles. Candles in the windows, candles in the trees, you know. And, ah, you had to be very careful, but they were pretty. And we'd go to church early in the morning on Christmas Eve. Now we go late at night instead. Stay home Christmas morning.

CF: What about during the war? Was the church or faith life really important during the war?

EG: Well, it was the same. They would always read the names of the soldiers that had gone from the parish. And the ones that were home would usually come to church. And, it was so nice to see them. And, they'd get a little group and just sit down and talk about where they had gone. 'Cause fellas, they'd say, "Gee, I haven't been called, but I'd love to see the world," you know. That was one of the drawbacks when you had to stay home. But, ah.

CF: Did most of the men want to enlist? Was there like a patriotism that they wanted to go or?

EG: I don't think they had much, I think everybody that got called, well not everybody, but most went willingly hoping that it would turn out right. And, ah, they just, there were a lot of men, and nobody knew where they were going. And all of a sudden it would be printed up in the paper in church or something where they were. Then everybody'd send a few lines to them so they'd get mail. They had stories to tell when they got back. But.
Is all that getting on there? [pointing to tape recorder]

CF: Yeah, yup.

EG: Oh, oh my. (laughs) I'm amazed. And here I have my notes, I can't even read them. Oh, in these years, my mother had occasion to go to California with her sister. My aunt worked for a well-to-do family up in New York State. And they had their estate there. And then they had a summer, ah, winter home in Santa Barbara. And he was, oh, he was on the New York Stock Exchange. A very nice family. And my aunt was the lady's maid. And I think she stayed her whole life. When she retired, she was living here in a trailer on our land because she never married. And, ah, she was old then. Then, one year, during the war, she said to her sister, my mother, you should come see California, how beautiful it is. Cause she had traveled a lot with the family, so she knew. And they arranged for her to take the train to California. So, she was to meet, in Chicago, with the cook, the woman that was the cook, and one of their other maids. They were also going to go. And, she had never met them. But, my aunt said, "You go ahead. I've told them who you are and what you're going to do." So, I went with her on, it was a nice little, they called it, a B-liner, a train that zoomed down through Connecticut into New York. It was a nice fast trip. And we went down to Pennsylvania Station there. Because that's where the train to Chicago was going to. And, she went to Chicago and she met the ladies. And also, Bert had an aunt in Chicago. And I had written that my mother was going to be there. And they had met once before. So, she said, "I'll be at the station." They had to be at the station for a few hours. And you can't just sit there and look, you have to see the city a little bit. So, Bert's aunt met her and they went walking a little bit around the station and the city. Then she got back on the train, I don't know how many days it took. But, then she says, when they got out through Arizona, one day there was an announcement that there would be no lunch on the train. Because at that time they were carrying two cars full of German, um, what do you call them, soldiers that had been captured, ah.

CF: Prisoners of war?

EG: Yes. They were being brought here someplace in this country. So, they had the food for that day. So, lunch and dinner, whatever that was. So, the train stopped, and they had to get off at this station, and they had made bags with sandwiches in it. So, they got fed. But, all the rest of it, all the food that was prepared on the train went for the German soldiers. Well, they're not soldiers, they're captives.

CF: Right, prisoners.

EG: Yes. Prisoners. So, I, she said, when the got to Los Angeles, they had already dropped off the cars that they were in. So, that was an experience for her. She couldn't wait to get back to tell me. You couldn't telephone from here to California in those days. But, when she came home, and she started to tell her story. And then, she said, course there was a lot of American soldiers on traveling short distances. But, some of them had never been to California. And, she said when they got into Los Angeles, there were orange trees growing all along the station. And, she said, they were so happy, they picked the oranges, and they played ball with the oranges. And, so, she had a very nice, cause, she was quite old then. So, that was her trip. She got back safely and told her stories. And we were glad to see her come back because she was our babysitter, when Bev was little. That was how I could go to work and serve lunch. Because my mother was home. If she wasn't. And Bert, he went to Hartford. And I said, "What am I going to do?" Bev was off to college. And he says, "Get a job. But, not on Wednesdays, cause that's my day off." (laughs) But, that was a joke, but by golly, I, we knew somebody that was in the museum, my sister-in-law again. She had, a friend that was working in the museum. And she said, "Gee, they're looking for ladies to serve coffee in the museum between movies at night." They had a lot of movies at night. So, we took the job. She drove, but she didn't drive up there. It would be one of the sons of hers that would drive us up there. And we'd serve coffee in between movies and put away all the, it was done nicely, you know how they do things in the museum. So, we'd put it away. And that was the end of it. So, that's the way it went for awhile. But, ah, they changed their style a little bit. They'd have movies, but they wouldn't do coffee anymore. But, then there was a lady that had been working there as a cleaning lady. And they said, "Do you want it? You can take any days you want, you know, you don't have to.." So, there was my chance.

CF: Wednesdays off?

EG: I could have Wednesdays off. [Laughs] So, I said I'll try it. And I went to work. And, I worked there fourteen years. And I had a wonderful time. I became so cultural, and I learned things I never..I had only been there with the Girl Scout group, you know when we had Brownies and Girl Scouts, we always brought them on a trip there. And, I had a wonderful boss. He always, he was the nicest man. He had such a French accent. Everything he said was music to my ears. It would go right through, I don't know what he said, but. [Laughs] But, he was nice. And he loved New England. He was from Switzerland. And, the French side of Switzerland, he used to say. And, everybody loved him. He was a real smart man. And, little by little, things changed. And he got older. But, Bert and I used to go up to his home. And, um, he was alone, his children were married. We'd go up Christmas time and bring him, cause he was a loner. And, Bert would help him fix his car if it was something he could do for him. So, we got to be good friends with him, his name was Mr. (?). But, he got sick towards the end and he went to California where he had a daughter. We corresponded. He loved New England, he wanted to come back, but, it just didn't work out that way. And, then he died out there. So, it was too bad. But, I stayed there for awhile, different people came. And, I, Jim Wayloo (?) that's there now is my best friend. Because, he came in as a young man and then left again. We had so much fun with him. And, I'm still invited to their parties.

CF: Oh, that's nice.

EG: And now, Jim was the top man. And the museum is having a hard time now. People can't give to everything. So, they're having to cut out. But, so, that's how my life was. On and on and on..[Laughs] I don't know what else to say.

CF: During the war, did any of your women friends or sisters go to work that hadn't worked before?

EG: Oh, I imagine so. Yeah, I think there was, I know the years that I was going, the bus or the trolley car, cause I went on both, there was a lot of women on it. Cause, men managed, a lot of men walked, you know, if they only worked up in, they could walk Green St and Quinsigamond Ave. You'd see the same people walking and, it was quick for them I guess. But, then the shops started to spread out so, different places. And then of course, women went into the service. I had a cousin who was a WAAC, I guess. Yeah, WAACs and WAVEs, I think they were. But, then she moved to Chicago. She met somebody she served with, but, otherwise she came from Greendale. But, she came home all dressed up in her uniform.

CF: But, you had worked a the club during the war. You didn't work in a factory?

EG: No, no. But, ah. As I say, it's all American Steel from every side. Because you, the Village was, you know, growning up-

END OF TAPE ONE

TAPE TWO
[Tape begins mid-sentence]

EG: And not even for us, for everybody.

CF: Right, right. What did you think was the goal of the war back then? What was the purpose of fighting was?

EG: I, I'm against all of it, the whole business. I'm interested in it, I can't help it, but I'm a great listener to WBZ, all day and all night, because, but, it's a little too much sometimes. So, now, because of this horrible thing, it's on all day long.

CF: Right, but, back then, what did you think was, what was your sense of why we were fighting, of why America was involved?

EG: Well, we had reason after Pearl Harbor. But, before that, I really, as I say, when I was growing up in grammar school, you just knew, you'd hear your, you just hear people talking, families talking, and you have to, I didn't really…we knew fellas from down hear who went in and we wrote to them, and we'd get answers, as far back, or as close back. The last one, the desert war we just had, the boy across the street was in, he wrote to me, and I wrote back to him. And just the thought that I was writing to somebody who was in one of the Biblical countries! You, know. But that was, I don't think there'll ever be complete peace in the world. So, it's just, I don't know how to answer that. If we had had someone real close, maybe it would be, you know. But, we were fortunate with the whole family of boys. The youngest one of the boys, he never, he just went off to college, by the time he got back it was over. So, he got a job in Michigan and he stayed there.

CF: Was the war, did it seem like part of your everyday life? Were people talking about it or was it on the radio every day?

EG: Well, that's about it, I suppose it was. But, a lot of the radios didn't have loudspeakers, you'd have to sit and listen. And, ah, but there was plenty of news in the papers. Sometimes I think they were better than they are now. In Millbury particularly, because if something happens here, we don't hear it until two days after. It's not the coverage that they have, but then the big cities have the papers.

CF: What were your-

EG: Oh, and battle, big ships came into Boston. We went down several times, Bert and I, to see ships that came in, and it was open to the public, to see the big carriers. Big, huge is right, and now they're a lot bigger.

CF: How, how did you perceive the enemy? What were your thoughts about Germany or Japan? What were your thoughts about that?

EG: Well, Germany, I don't know. That was such a horrible, you know, you didn't know who was what at the end. And, I don't think anybody had any good thoughts about Hitler, particularly. And, ah, Japan, it was, we, I don't know, we treated the, we did to the Japanese people, we brought, some of them lost their homes here. I don't know what they called them, they had to move out of their homes in California during the war and live in different parts and, ah. It's strange because, now I have a grandneice that's in California now. And one of her best friends is a girl whose family was..disposed or something, but, they're all back here now. And, ah, a big family, and they're all good friends now, but ah, you'd think that would always be in the back of her mind and her parents. But, I don't know them other than her, when they come home to visit.

CF: Was there a lot of propaganda or posters or adds about the war or the enemy or?

EG: Well, I remember "Uncle Sam Needs You," you know, that one. And, ah, and Liberty Bonds, there was a lot of drives for money and that, but, almost everybody that was in the politics and presidents, they'd have, come through the city on trains. And they'd stand on the back and wave and talk to people and have little meetings. But, I never, we never got into politics that way.

CF: Did you join any organizations at all during the war? Any benevolent societies or anything?

EG: No, no.

CF: Any women's groups or anything like that?

EG: No, no. It was mostly just at church. And if they had speakers that came or things like that. But otherwise, the legion is the name I was trying to say, the Legion Post. It's strange to get old. (laughter) My whole life is changed.

CF: Did you feel there was a role for you personally, like an obligation to serve your country or do something different or to, or was there like a call to the Village? Did you feel like you had to do your part?

EG: Well, we used to knit and do things. We did a lot of knitting, cause you could take it with you to a meeting. But, other than that. And giving, if there was any event to bake, there was no question about that, you just baked. But, now, it's so dog-on easy to bake, but I can't even read the box now! They have pictures on the boxes now. But, ah.

CF: Did the Village have to make a sacrifice or was it just the rationing and stuff like that?

EG: I think that's probably the biggest..

CF: The biggest change?

EG: Yeah, cause, after that the Village was never the same. We used to say that, Never the same since the war.

CF: Ok.

EG: Well, it just, people had been around, seen a little bit of the world. Until that, most of them had only seen Quinsigamond, you know. And, ah, now, and a lot of them liked what they saw in places and went back. And sailors, that had seen the world. I didn't know too many sailors here, though. Most of them were servicemen, you know. We had one neighbor, two houses up, but he was an ROTC student at Holy Cross, Paul. And, he was a flyer on an aircraft carrier. And he'd come home, that was not too, too many years ago. But, it was always interesting when Paul came home. All the men would, and with his father, they'd all go sit under the trees in the yard when Paul was home. But, he says, Well I can't tell you everything. He kept his part of it. But, that was the closest, really, the closest one that we knew. But, that was modern times, you know.

[Phone rings. Pause tape]

CF: Did, was the fact that Sweden was neutral during the war, because Quinsigamond was such a Swedish heritage place, was that a big role, or were people concerned with what Sweden was doing?

EG: With what was going on there? No. They used to say that ah, now, Norway was the one that was on the water. And, the Norweigan shores, and they're the ones that had submarines come in the fiords and that. So, we were always, everybody was interested in that. But, other than that, Sweden was, more or less a, they were happy with them. Now, it's so full of different kinds of people in Sweden, that it wasn't Sweden anymore! We have cousins up here a year and a half ago. That was when they didn't like Bush, they said, in Sweden. And that was the last words Lenny said. And that was after all the bombing and that. And he was in charge of the crew carriers, big ships carrying, ah, fruit from the tropics. He'd go down through the canals, the Suez canal, and we got cards from him, we were always worried about him. And, ah, then they'd load up the ships with fruit from all those tropical countries, and then they'd come, and their home port here was Long Beach California. And he used to go with the ships, but now he flies ahead of them. So, he, everytime he's in this country, he calls and just, but, now I haven't heard from him. The last time he was in China and amid countries down through there. And he had been to the Wall in China, and he sends postcards, oh, from all over the world. But, he mentions twice, he says, We don't like Bush, he just kept saying. And that was strange because we never talk politics when we're together or anything. But, so it must be effecting their country. But, that's from the latest years now, but before that, he was on the ocean all the time. They lived near the ocean and he got it in his blood. He became a cabin boy on ships, you know, and got to like it. But, he has a nice job, and the shipping company is in Antwerp. So, but, they have offices in different countries. But, most of the home office is in Antwerp. But, they're big white ships and just, they come up from South America. And he just goes while they're loading I guess, and then he flies to ahead until they come here. And then they go off. And, now there was a shipping strike, well, this is modern, the last few months ago. Out on the West Coast, everything was tied up, that's the reason why he's not calling up.

CF: So, did people in Quinsigamond identify themselves more as Americans than as Swedish?

EG: I think so, yeah.

CF: Did the war change that or? Did they feel even more American during the war?

EG: Well, I think as we grew up more, and the kids were, English in school, then they talked more. Of course, they had evening classes to learn to speak and evening classes to become citizens and things like that. But, ah, they didn't have time for to begin with, but then, ah. And of course, now it's language problems in schools in this day and age.

CF: Right, right. Did your, did the parishes support the war? Were they in favor of the war or were they looking more that America should stay out of it or were they supportive?

EG: Well, I imagine they'd have to be both ways, you know. So, but, I never noticed it that it, you know, so bad, when there's anything special, they'd say prayers for it, this and that. And holidays, we don't have, we're trying, we have a new organist and we want him to play patriotic songs every now and then, cause when we do sing them, you know, it's really loud. But, it's something, that they, they're not exactly too anxious to do that. But, that's not his decision, that comes from some committee somewhere else.

CF: Did any of your customs or cultural traditions change during the war? Were there any things you stopped doing or that you started doing?

EG: No, they carry on. The Swedes have the Sac, that's the SAC Park, and they have their May Pole dances in the summer. And, ah, they dancing and ah, open (something?). That's the only place that I know of around here. But, they have a lot of Swedish lodges in the city. And, ah, they were the headquarters way back, but other than that there were lodges. And, those were groups that kind of kept together the people that came from the same areas in Sweden. So, um, there was one in the Village. And for many years that was an active lodge. It still is, but not the way it was before.

CF: Not the way it used to be?

EG: No, that's dying out, too. We'd get reading material from them, cause Bert was a member. I never joined, but, ah. Books would come and you could see now how different it was. But, ah, there are other ones, younger ones that all of a sudden, they're all looking back to their heritage.

CF: Did you see a difference between the way you remember the war with the way it's portrayed in the movies, you know with Pearl Harbor and all the World War II movies? Do you see a difference between the way Hollywood does the war and they way you remember living it?

EG: [Laughs] To tell the truth, I haven't been to a movie in so many years! I don't know when the last one was. But, ah, there's, all of a sudden there's a surge that everybody's got to go to the movies. I know my neice, gee, they take off at seven thirty, eight o'clock at night saying they're going to the movies. So, I don't know what they're, I don't even know the stars unless they're an old timer movie star. But, years ago, gee, you knew them all. And, ah, Humphrey Bogart, and oh, Clark Gable, of course. And, all the different ones there. I never really was that much of a fan of the movies.

CF: Was there a change in the economic status of your family or your friends? Was anyone that was having a hard time during the Depression helped out by the war? Or, your husband had worked before it?

EG: Yeah, yes. He had worked before, yeah. We were fortunate, most of them. We all helped one another, if they need something, they're not afraid to ask. But, ah, we have some parts of the family, quite well off, you know, and they take care of the big parties and reunions and that. So, cause we used to go together, we still do, Christmas Eve is always together the way it used to be. And they have the biggest house and it's always nice to go there and be a guest. And we cook Swedish food for those holidays, right down to the last thing. Whether they like it or not, they want it on the table in case somebody does. So, it's usually a big spread.

CF: Were there ever any neighborhood rivalries between Quinsigamond and any other places in Worcester? Was there any?

EG: Well, I don't know about rivalry but, Greendale and Quinsig were two, there were a lot of Swedes up there too. I don't know if there was rivalry, but we knew that there were, the names, you know, you could tell. I don't think there was any, I don't remember any rivalry. The only, the churches had basketball teams and all the, and that, that was before we were married, and we used to go to see them. And that was a lot of fun. And it was always fun but it was, they were rival churches, but they'd play in North High School and wherever there was free space.

CF: What did you do for fun during WWII?

EG: [Laughs]

CF: Did you go to White City or downtown or?

EG: Yeah, White City, we, it was always there. I went to, before that, when I was still in high school, there was dancing, down in Lincoln Park there, before White City. And, ah, they'd dance so they'd just collapse. They'd dance day and night, day and night and they had been numbers hanging off their backs.

CF: Oh, wow, like the competitions?

EG: Yes, competitions. That was when I was in high school and one of my aunts said, I'd love to go down to White City and watch them because they were on their feet dragging and the music was playing. So, ah, she said, When you get out of high school today, I'll be down in the city, she lived in Greendale, so, we went down on the trolley car to White City and sat all afternoon on bleachers looking at these poor people stumbling around. (laughs) That went on and on, those, and they'd do something like that. Odd things. A trip to Spag's was more fun than anything.

CF: How did you hear about big events in the war, like D-Day or? Just through the radio?

EG: Yeah, yeah.

CF: And how did you feel about D-Day?

EG: [I think she thought I said V-E Day] Oh, that was exciting. We all went downtown in the evening. Oh! Bert and I, we walked down Main Street, we walked down to City Hall, and everybody was out, the streets were mobbed. They were jumping, shaking cars up and down, you know, trolley cars were not moving, they were just stuck right where they were. And, ah, but, everybody loved everybody, it was a real friendly thing. I remember from there we had to, there was announcements made that the trolley, or maybe it was the buses by that time I think maybe it was buses, the buses, you could get them still out, you know if you went out Front Street. And then we got on a bus that went all the way down here, cause the family was here. So, then we celebrated down here. And, there were a lot of families here that were all, they were Swedish on the street, not so now, but then. And everybody had flags out and lights and, there was music and it just went on and on.

CF: To celebrate that the war was over?

EG: Yes, to celebrate that it was over, yeah. I don't even know what year it was now, to tell the truth. Because I was, I mean, the years have come and gone, and numbers get me so screwed up. [Laughter]

CF: Is there anything else about your life during the war that we haven't talked about that you want to share? Anything?

EG: After you leave, I'll think of a lot of things. [Laughs]

CF: Well, if you think of anything else, you can let me know. But, like, anything, what were your strongest memories of the war or anything like that? Like, if I say World War Two, what do you think of, that first pops into your head?

EG: Well, it's awfully strange, it isn't so much the war, but I remember when the Market crashed in '29, that I can see that, anytime I see a bank add nowadays, I can see that. That was in Millbury, I, a girl that lived on the same street as me, she was my friend, best friend, that was in Quinsig. Her father was a business man, he owned a store and they had a summer house down on Singleterry Lake, and they, the family spent the summers down there. And then they lived on Reeve St in the winter in a big house. And Ruth always wanted me to come down, cause we were together all day, and then she'd say, Will your mother let you come down? Well, the first night, I was too small, I cried. But after that, I learned my lesson, don't cry. And then, her father took me, would bring me down there when he left work at night. And it was, I don't know what day it was, but we drove through Millbury and all, there were a lot of little banks in Millbury, there is still is on those streets there. And there were long lines of people outside. And the doors were closed. And Mr. Sundquist explained to me that the banks had closed the doors and people couldn't get their money and that's why people were standing out there. And that strikes me so much when businesses like this, Gee, I wonder if it will ever be like that again? But, that's a strange thing for you, course I don't have that much, but, I saw then how much it meant to the people. Boy, everybody, tried to go to the bank and see if you can't get something. But, that was, as far as the war, it's pictures of the camps, and the death camps. We saw that in the movies and that. And now you see it on old replays and so, you don't know which is which.

CF: Well, thank you very much for all your help.

EG: All I did was talk. [Laughs]

CF: But that's all I wanted you to do though! Just to trying to get a picture of your life.

EG: Well, I wondered, Gee, I don't know what to say. So, I thought back a little further and further but, then I got mixed up in the years. And as I say, if I could read, I love to write, but now, I need a big fat pen and make big letters so I can read it quick.

CF: I'm trying to think if there's anything else…No, I think we talked about a lot of good things.

EG: Well, if you're satisfied. [Laughs]