Interview with Edward Hult
Interview by Andrew Des Rault
Quinsigamond United Methodist Church, Worcester MA
October 27, 2002

The following is an interview with Mr. Edward Hult conducted by Andy Des Rault for the Quinsigamond Homefront Project.

Andrew Des Rault (AD): Mr. Hult, When were you born?

Edward Hult (EH): I was born January 15, 1917.

AD: And you grew up in Quinsigamond? What Street?

EH. Stebbins Street. Right here.

AD: Ok, so right near the Methodist Church.

EH: Right, top of the street.

AD: Which you were involved in since your childhood, right?

EH: Oh yeah, we were all brought up down here.

AD: At what time did you start becoming active in the United Methodist Church?

EH: When I became active? You mean as a person, well, of course we went to Sunday School here. And after that as we grew older, we participated in different organizations in the Church. And I guess, ah, just before the war, even during the war, we became active, sang in the choir, and did a lot of things in the church.

AD: At about what time did you leave the Quinsigamond area? When you moved to Auburn…

EH: When I moved to Auburn, oh, in 1931, when my father bought a home out in Auburn, we moved out to Auburn in 1931. And I did the grammar school here- it was the last graduating class from the Quinsigamond School that we had, so that June we moved to Auburn.

AD: And that's just right next door…

EH. Oh yeah,

AD: Um, during the war now- we're going to move on to World War II- did anyone in your family, or anyone that you know go to fight in the war, and how did this affect you?

EH: Well, of course a lot of my friends had gone in the war before I went in the war - I was working for the American Steel and Wire as a project engineer and they were giving me deferments. And finally, I got to the point- I just wanted to go myself, so then I finally went, in December, I guess, of 1943 and we went overseas and stayed over there until I came home in June I guess, no, May of '46. We did fine.

AD: Great. So a good deal of your buddies went out and fought too?

EH: Oh yeah. All of them. Yeah.

AD: Would you say it was the majority of men in Quinsigamond?

EH: I think all of us went…

AD: Wow…

EH: If somebody stayed home, they had a handicap of some kind, otherwise all the fellas went. Most of the fellas in Auburn went also.

AD: What if they held a job in, let's say, American Steel and Wire, or…

EH: Well, I had one there, I was a project engineer on the cables that we designed for the destroyers and all the ships like that- the submarines- and they kept giving me deferments while I got married, but I wanted to go, so I finally went. I went down to Boston to try and get in the Air Corps and they threw me down- [laughs] on some stupid thing that didn't amount to nothing, but then finally, I, they, they gave up on me and let me go. So I served my time.

AD: Um, what do you feel were some of the biggest changes in your life, or your family's life during the war, ah, just in general?

EH: Well, the biggest changes? Well, of course, there was a lot of things going on when that, when the war started, mostly when the war was going on, and then of course we came home from the war, and there was quite a change to see things going on then. And we came back, and we thought we were gonna go to work right away, but we didn't go to work right away because they had to go from war products, to a peace time product. And that took a while, and eventually we got our jobs back.

AD: So there was a lag time…

EH: There was a lag time, yeah, well, they'd put you maybe two, three days a week rather than the full week.

AD: You found that tough?

EH: Well, I was married [laughs]… You have a few more obligations at that point than you had before, before you weren't married, you know, so then, but, It was funny because my wife worked at the American Steel and Wire also and during the war, when I was out, they'd [say] "When's he comin' home, when's he comin' home?" So I figured, gee, [when] I come home I'm gonna, I'm gonna go right to work. [few inaudible words] But anyway, so I made it. Two days a week down at the mill down here and then I worked at the vegetable stand up in Paxton, at Van Wicks farm up there and I worked there weekends, so I got my vegetables and I got a little money besides, so I, I did ok. We made it, Dot and I did, and then finally, one day all of the sudden, I'm in the bakery down [in] the village here and a fella who I knew owned this company, but I didn't know he owned this company, in Worcester at the time, which was Lundquist Tool and he said, "I'd been looking for you for some time Ed, where have you been?" I said, "Right here Wolly!" Well anyways, he hired me, and I went to work at Lundquist Tool to stay with them for 37 years. And I became their Executive Vice President and ran the company, and it was a good company.

AD: I notice that you've been mentioning American Steel and Wire very much, especially your involvement early on before you went abroad. How many, how many people would you say from Quinsigamond were employed by American Steel and Wire as their primary employer? Was it pretty much employment for the entire village, or…

EH: Well, it was, it was a big percentage of the people in Quinsig village [who] worked at the American Steel and Wire, its just like the case [of] my father [who] worked there for 51 ½ years when he retired. And, so, there was a lot of fellas working there. 'Course there were other places- Norton Company in Worcester and [inaudible] and there were some other few shops in town also where the fellas worked. But the majority worked at the American Steel and Wire. And it was a good place to work. In fact, it was pretty handy from your house [laughs].

AD: What was the actual work in American Steel and Wire, like during the war? Did they have more rigid work demands? Did they require you to work more hours, or, did you have and "esprit de corps," like, you thought you were really serving American interests by working for them?

EH: Well, I mean they -that's a hard question to answer- but I mean, we worked our forty hours a week and then of course when the war got going, we put in more hours. And then the worst of it was, in that case, [inaudible] that we put in more hours, and we couldn't even work in the plant on Sundays, so we went down to the bosses' house down in Oxford, and did our work down there, and then we didn't get paid for it- they told us to keep a notebook with our hours- we never got reimbursed. When we came out of the service, when they could have reimbursed us…

AD: You should file for that now, retroactively- with interest!

EH: We never, we never got paid for it, but that's ok. So we spent many of hours on that, we'd even work Sunday nights until eight o'clock at night!

AD: Wow.

EH: Yeah, but that was all war work, so we didn't mind doing it.

AD: Good, [a] feeling of selflessness, that's good. Um, I guess moving on to more things about the war now, how did you feel when Pearl Harbor was attacked?

EH: I thought it was terrible.

AD: And what perceptions did you have of the Japanese, or…

EH: Well, I'm a very narrow-minded person, I guess, and I had no use for them. For a sneaky attack like that, to do to us, was absolutely uncalled for. So I did not have a good voice for the Japanese. Maybe I was wrong, but, I mean, that's the way I looked at it.

AD: And the Germans?

EH: And the Germans. I married a German girl [laughs]. But I want to tell you, in Germany, it was really something to see what was going on in Germany because that's a shame, because it was a beautiful country, the whole, if you've ever been to Germany, Germany and Austria and down through Switzerland and that and, its unbelievable- the beautiful countries. But that's the way it was.

AD: When, did you see any action when you were abroad?

EH: Oh yeah.

AD: In what battles?

EH: Well, we went in, and we first got together in Metz, France, and that's when from there [we] went in through there into Germany into Salaten, then from Salaten we [went through] the Southern part of Germany and down in through, in through Austria. When the war was all over we shook hands with the Russians in Enz Austria, and that was something. I wanna tell you, they had a truck, and it was a Studebaker truck, that's the only piece of equipment they had, they had no, equipment [that] they could carry [on] their own, and they had no food with them.-they would take it off the land- whatever they could get they would grab. And the name "Studebaker" in front, they'd taken a drill with a stone on it to remove the name "Studebaker." And they called it "Ruskie truck." But then I ended up in the Army of occupation. And I was there for awhile and I ended up in Vienna, Austria. And of course there, in Vienna Austria, what happened there was that there was the British, the French, the Russians and the Americans. Every fourth month you took command of the city, and when you took command of the city, you ran the city, under the, under the laws that they set forth with all the nations together. And again, I have to say this: that the Russians were terrible. They were in buildings where they would come in to a building and they would actually strip any appliance, any bathroom fixture, and kitchen fixture, anything they could get, and put it on a train to be shipped back to Russia. That's what they did. And all they would do when they took over for the month was have a party, and all they wanted to do was drink. So you go over there to support and represent the United States and they'd handle you a bottle of Vodka , and you're supposed to drink it. Well, you put it to your lips, but you never opened your lips.

AD: Yeah?

EH: You just couldn't do it. You know.

AD: So you'd say one of the memories of the war , for you definitely, your friends [also], would see the Russians as being simply unsavory?

EH: Oh, no, no. Well, I'll tell you. My record in Washington is still on, and they issued me a brand new Army jeep. It was parked in front of our building which was called the "telephone building" in Vienna. And evidently, the guard left his post, which he shouldn't have done, and when he did, the Russians grabbed the jeep! We never found it [laughs]. It was brand new. I don't think it had five miles on it. [laughs]. But that's how they…

AD: [laughs] Well they needed it more than we did!

EH. I think so.

AD: Do you think that most of your friends, most of your peers at the time, perceived the enemy in the same way that you did- thinking of the Japanese as "sneaky" and the Germans as…

EH: Well, I can't answer for them, but I would say, I think a lot of them did. Sure, absolutely. I mean there was no love lost…

AD: Oh yeah. For yourself, just personally, when you ended up actually joining, what was your sense of fighting in the war, like, ah, why do you think as a nation we were engaged in war against Japan or Germany. Has that sense changed from then 'till now? What I mean is that, did you feel that you were fighting for something greater, like democracy, did you think you were fighting for people's lives abroad?

EH: Well, once we got over there, we found out what we were fighting for. We certainly were fighting for the freedom of the people. And when you realize the freedom of the people, you can't believe how some of these concentration camps were. You just can't believe them. I mean, if I was to tell you, you just wouldn't believe it. You'd say, "oh, he's telling a story." Well, I'm not telling a story. I opened quite a few of them. I can just show you right here, right now, some of these pictures that, they're not nice to look at, but ah… (Mr. Hult displays a series of vivid photos from the camps).

This is when we got into Salaten, and there's kids.- and we were there for two weeks, they kept us there. And I couldn't eat, neither could the other guys eat, these kids would come around and we'd give em whatever food we got for three meals a day, we'd give em to these kids. And what we didn't give to the kids, they would pick out of a bucket which was the garbage, and eat that.

And this here is some of the ovens that they took the people [to] and burned them.

Here you can see the bodies- the bones are left. [silence] and we saw many many ones like that. It was unbelievable. So you see what we fought for.

Here's a man here, he was, I forget the name of it, I can't remember the name of the town he was in, but he was the head of the guards for the Germans and he had a small concentration of people in a camp there and they chained them to the walls by their ankles. And there was, what we call, like a pig pen where they were living. And they ate there, and did all of there business right there in front of them. And that's where they lived for a number of years…

And this guy, when we opened up and let it out, and they went to hike, they went down into the town and brought this man back and they- this was five minutes after he was killed. I took that picture. They went down and grabbed him found him, and brought him up and killed him right there.

And this is a group of the German SS that we took over in Enz Austria, and we got them there.

AD: What's the, what's going on with their hair? It looks like they have…

EH: Yeah. Well, and there are some more of them there that we got in Enz.

AD: What did you do with the SS after…

EH: Well they were turned over and then the government took them, you know, we grabbed them and brought them in.

And here's part of the entrance to that Dachau or whatever they call it.

And here I'm riding on the boat going home… Pretty happy guy!

AD: Still a good looking man, huh?

EH: Thanks. But that was my trip over there…

AD: Oh wow, so you were a…

EH: I was a First Sergeant.

AD: So you'd been in for some time. Excellent. If you're ok with it, I guess later on when we're putting together the website, if you don't mind maybe putting some of those pictures on the website…

EH: Sure.

AD: I could give you a call. Stop by. Scan some of them.

Moving on, besides working in the American Steel and Wire, what kind of sacrifices do you think the village as a whole had to make during the war?

EH: Well, I guess the biggest sacrifice is that people would go to the store, which we all do, and they couldn't get certain items which were… you know, in shortage, and you just couldn't- they didn't have in the store. And they were very good and they, you know, would see that you get it. And they were fine if, I was just stopping by and they kept it down. And if there was a family they'd give more to them which was wonderful that they do it. So, yeah the people sacrificed a lot. 'Course they did. Everybody did. It was during the war. And a lot of them, of course, sacrificed with the loss of their sons and some their daughters, that they lost, which was a big loss. And there were some down here, the families where-I gotta good friend of mine with three brothers in there and all three brothers went into the service. The mother was home alone without a husband. So there was a lot of sacrifice. And in general that's the people of the United States.

AD: You think that's changed since World War II?

EH: No, I don't think so. I mean, there are certain people who will always be on the opposite side, I mean they just, they just like to be that way. I don't understand them. And I don't see how they get that way, but if that's what they want to be, your not gonna change it.

AD: Do you think that Quinsigamond village more than, let's say the other regions of Worcester… [interruption]. Do you think Quinsigamond sacrificed more than other parts of Worcester?

EH: I don't think so, no. well, it was the same all over. Everybody put their shoulder to the wheel and they worked at it and they worked hard. Whether you were at American Steel and wire or Norton Company, whatever company then you worked for, you helped them. Worcester's a great town.

AD: Ah, ok, good question about politics in general: What were the politics like in Worcester, or Quinsigamond- whichever region. What were they like during the war? Were politics especially divisive, or were people pretty much on the same page?

EH: They were on the same page. During the war, I mean, as I'll say it again, got behind the wheel and pushed it. After the war it was a little different story then [laughs].

AD: Yeah [laughs].

EH: They had a goal to meet and they met it and they stayed behind their work good. They did a good job.

AD: Who was in control back then anyway, was it Republicans or Democrats- of the city?

EH: Well, the Republicans were in control for quite some time you know, whether we want to admit it or not, but they were even in the state. I mean, so I mean the Republicans were in power for a long while so the Democrats came in a little later. But I think shortly after the war, the Republicans were still there- the City of Worcester, if I remember correctly. It's hard to remember everything [laughs].

AD: How would you say the political affiliation of Quinsigamond was during the war? Republican or Democrat, or apathetic?

EH: I'd think it was more Republican than anything.

AD: Even among labor?

EH: Yep.

AD: Is there any kind of organized labor movement in Quinsigamond- like I know the Teamsters are right down the street right now?

EH: We didn't have that back then. No. And of course the American Steel and Wire back then, lets see, that was, I guess it was after the war they signed with a union, and when they did that, well they signed. They really- the people, I could remember some of them, they signed for it and they weren't sure. All the sudden they realized they had to pay five dollars a month. What were they going to get for their five dollars? Not much. So when you figure five dollars times twelve months, you get a few dollars. Especially back then when the pays were the way they were- in comparison with what they are today [laughs]. You can't compare them.

AD: When you went to the movies during the war, or the cinemas, whatever you did for entertainment, what did you think of the portrayal of the war on the silver screen? Did you think it was accurate? Do you think it was done, you know, purposefully to motivate the American public to join the war cause? How did you feel towards that?

EH: I don't think I went to the movies during the war.

AD: Probably didn't have time with all of those hard hours you were working...

EH: Yeah, so I don't feel there were too many movies being produced at that time. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any definite ones in particular I went to see. I should've remembered them but I didn't if I did go.

AD: Even Midway was made I think [laughs] in the '60's. I think you're right. But didn't they have newsreels?

EH: Yeah, right, yeah. They would give you a newsreel, which they really don't do now, just 'cause your news is given to you differently, so they can't compete with that. So back then, they'd give you a newsreel throughout the movies- before the program started.

AD: What would the content of those newsreels be?

EH: Well, [laughs] to be honest with you [I can't remember]…

AD: How often did you get into downtown Worcester during the war, when you were still here? Did you go in often for the nightlife, or would it just be…

EH: No, we'd stay home.

AD: Stayed home pretty much?

EH: Yeah. If fact I was the, what do you call them? A warden? Yeah, so you walked the streets at night at took your turn doing that. 'Cause people couldn't keep any lights exposed outside, the curtains were all pulled down, and so, so we did- your entertainment was minimum.

AD: Minimal entertainment?

EH: right.

Yeah I think the biggest entertainment would be the Church that you would go to…

AD: Oh yeah, let's talk a little about church involvement.

EH: Well, the church, over the years we- when we were yougnsters, our Sunday school used to be 500 some odd kids here on a Sunday morning.

AD: In this…

EH: In this church. Well, we had two stories of building and then they had what they call a bible class for the men and they were, they were 500 strong. And that was conducted by Judge Karl Walstrom who was a member of this church and he was instrumental in that which was what they'd call, public speaking class. And they had a big group. I have pictures at home which they were stretched out the whole width of the church, and they were over 500 men that would come here every Sunday and have their service. So, as a bunch of kids, I think that the kids [who] grew up in Quinsig village had the time of their life, and people were good to them, and even the fire station people down here- the firemen- in the wintertime for us, in the fall of the year, they made a skating rink outside so we could skate.

AD: I think I read about that…

EH: Yeah, oh yeah. And then ah, so we had fun. The when we were kids we made a miniature golf course in back of where Herbert Berg's greenhouse is now. And we made a, and the, we built that up, and it was eighteen holes, you know, just a miniature golf course and then our biggest customers were the schoolteachers- they'd come over and play [laughs]. Well we had fun.

AD: um, what else about church involvement, like what role do you think the church played- if it did at all-in the war. Did it seem to espouse it or did it pretty much take like a neutral stance on it?

EH: Well, I would say that most of the churches took a neutral stand, they didn't stick their neck out too far, and I don't blame them.

AD: Oh yeah, yeah…

EH. I mean ah, you know it's a pretty tough thing to do and to say and also somebody would criticize 'em right away, so the best thing to do is to hope and pray that everything was going for us. And the power of prayer is grateful. It's very strong.

AD: You've mentioned that public speaking class, and I think said there were 500…

EH: 500 men....

AD: …men in it.

EH: they were men, they were older than us, we were the younger guys.

AD: The focus of that was to build oratory skills?

EH: Yeah, think of it as- it was like a public speaking contest, ah class. In fact, a lot of them- I belonged to the Masons- and a lot of them participated in the Masons and they were active in the Masons, and became Masters of the lodge. And there were some big ones… a lot of memory work, and these fellas, a lot of them, were great in that. Judge Walstrom was very instrumental to that. He was great with that [inaudible]. But he did a nice job in our church: Produced a lot of fellows that supported that.

AD: And this was in and around the '30's and early '40's?

EH: Yeah, yeah.

AD: And you'd mentioned the Masons: Actually, I hadn't even thought about asking about- a question about them. What's the presence of the- What was the presence of the Masons back during, around the war time? Was it a pretty big presence, or…

EH: Yeah, it was a big group, and then right after the war they were pretty big, but then now its tapered off like all [fraternal] organizations. Because the young people are tied up doing something else.

AD: right.

EH: And so consequently, they're starting to dwindle, but they're working on it. And they're doing a lot of good. In fact, like in the city of Worcester, their help with the kids, it's a great thing they're doing.

AD: Is there a Mason's in Quinsig?

EH: No. They had- they were all in Worcester. They had the temple up there on Ionic Ave. And there's a temple still up there that was built. And there is where we have all of our meetings- we go there.

AD: What was their role during the war if they played any- major role?

EH: I think they'd help out, and if any fella was in the Masons, and he was in the city of Worcester, they knew where the building was. They'd come up and they would help them out. I was at school at Fort Monmouth- signal school- and when I was down there, I found their Masonic hallroom: They were great to me.

AD: What other kinds of organizations- social, political, religious, anything you can think of- did you belong to at the beginning of the war- right before you went away? Besides the church, Masons…

EH: Well, in Auburn, we had what we called the "Auburn Tennis Club" and we had two clay courts that we'd actually built ourselves and worked on them- took care of them. So we had a good time playing tennis. We were the youngest- 'course they'd give us all of the work to do- but we could play tennis too. 'Cause some of them fellas were really good, good tennis players. And then we also [inaudible] then we started playing golf, and that was quite the thing. And the older fellas from that group of men, they had a game, they would play golf every weekend. And my uncle and a few more of them fellas were there and when they first started out, we'd be their caddy, and then after awhile we started playing golf ourselves- then we had tournaments every Saturday. We'd put in a dollar a piece, and you'd buy a lot of prizes. We had a lot of fun. It was a good sport. But then after the war, it never picked up again, it just died of a natural death.

AD: One thing that strikes us as interesting, as historians- students of history- when we look back at the Depression era going into World War II is like the dramatic change in the economy, that occurred. A lot of people say that World War II brought us out of the Depression. There is a lot of evidence to support that. What kind of differences did you see in this area, economically, quality of life-wise, between the Depression era and World War II? Did life get much easier, or was it um…

EH: Well, after the Depression era, I mean, I was a very lucky boy. My father was Superintendent of American Steel and Wire, and I was a lucky boy, but, he had a sister and a brother that weren't that fortunate and they had a family, but my father saw to it that whatever we got as gifts, my cousins got the same thing from him and also from my uncle. They would all chip in together and make sure that they all had it. So everybody supported one- and helped one another. And after the war of course, then when industry started moving, and there was a lot of jobs around, people had money in their pocket. And that's one thing that helped them come along, and when you realize that that's back then, when I was with Lundquist Tool and we were doing a lot of work for Telecron, which is a General Electric company, and I'm trying to think how many electric clocks that they were making per day. And we had to produce, at Lundquist Tool, a two and a half ton truckload of metal stampings every day for them to assemble their clocks.

AD: An that's in the '50's?

EH: Yeah. And that was big business. And there was other business too that progressed. So there was…

AD: And you pretty much felt that that was a direct cause of [the] World War II boomtime?

EH: Yeah, yeah, well the-you figure the automotive industry- I mean, during the war, you couldn't even get a tire for your car and then they finally started producing cars. The first car when I came home from the service was a Model A Ford. I paid 200 bucks for it. I bought it up in Lancaster. And then, I had that for a while, and then I was down in Millbury, and Milbury Ford dealer down there, I was talking to him and he said, " Ed, I got a car that my wife had here since the beginning of the war." He says, "It's a good car, I'll sell it to you." And he said, "I think my son would like your Model A." That was his youngest boy, and of course, the kid wanted that. And so I bought that. Then I had trouble with that for a while. And then finally, later on, I got better cars as the years went by.

AD: One of the things that we've talked about is Quinsigamond's Swedish heritage,

EH: Yeah

AD: That there is a very strong Swedish heritage, and a, how did those ethnic-not necessarily tensions- but the ethnic background of Quinsigamond play into the war if at all. Do you feel that there might have been ethnic tensions between this community and those of other communities within Worcester- between any groups in particular…

EH: No.

AD: And in terms of.- this is an interesting question: It turns out that Sweden was neutral during the first two or three years of the war, and in fact had made overtures towards actually supporting Germany in some ways- they let troops pass through their territory en route to the Soviet Union. Did you think much about that, or was there much of a perception in general of that here?

EH: I think it was just ignored.

AD: Just ignored?

EH: Yeah, and nobody paid attention to it because they were producing the ball bearings in Sweden, which is a business over there in Sweden. I had an opportunity after the war was over, my wife and I went over to Europe about seven or eight times, and if you could have seen, like Norway, where they burned out place after place of those people up there, I mean the Germans, did an awful job on them people. And I want to tell you though, during World War II, when the United States Airforce came over with the first group of planes, the first night they came over there was about 100, and the second night we were told there was 500 planes [that] went over. Well, as we progressed, in, on the ground, and got closer and closer to some of these cities that we saw in Germany, they were completely wiped out. The Americans had destroyed everything. The air power was unbelievable. And that's what really threw them up in a corner where they couldn't move. But it was unbelievable. So when you see the people in Germany come back, like they did, and I had the opportunity to go back into Europe with my wife-on vacation- I think it was seven trips we took over there- and I saw these cities all restored. Places like churches in Salzburg where the aisles of the church were bombed right out. Its been all restored. You can't even tell it. The whole Cathedral's inside. Then we went down to the St. Stevens church in Vienna- I remember seeing that- and that church was completely, oh, it was terrible, and when I walked in there with Dot after the we were on one of our trips, I says, " Dot, you're not gonna believe what I'm gonna tell you, but this was nothing but a [wreck]." And today, it is a beautiful church. They've got some craftsmen in Germany. And I hope they still carry that on, because some of the things that they have done that I have seen were just unbelievable. I mean, you couldn't even tell that they had restored it. And I imagine that we do the same thing in the United States, to, so we have good craftsmen here.

AD: This is a question a probably should have asked earlier, but, as of your own background, your own heritage, are you of Swedish descent?

EH: Yeah, yeah. Mother and Father came from Sweden.

AD: So 100 percent.

EH: Yep.

AD: And your wife as well?

EH: My wife is German.

AD: Oh, ok. That's right, you'd mentioned that.

EH: Yeah, she's German.

AD: She's 100 percent?

EH: Yep. She belongs to this church.

AD: So you are second generation, and your wife is also- second generation?

EH: Yeah, yep.

AD: How was it, or how hard do you think it was for your parents to adapt. And yourselves even?

EH: Well, my mother came over here when she was fourteen years of age. And I think it was hard for her. Her and her sister came over and their relatives brought them over, from the Johnny Swenson Company- he brought them over here. And the reason they came over here, which is a little story to tell you, because the mother had passed away and they couldn't get along with the new mother that the father had married. But it's a funny story to tell you because she had two children by her first husband and those two boys came to the United States to work. And you know where they stayed? With my grandmother. And we stayed on the second floor, my grandmother was on the first floor. But that's how everything worked together-we helped one another. And that's why, you know, today, when people don't help one another, we're not gonna grow properly. I mean, you've gotta give a helping hand. I mean, it doesn't cost much and if you do it, you gain an awful lot.

EH: I just rattle on, huh?

AD: Oh, hey, keep rattling on [laughs]! It's all very good. All very good. Ah, one thing I keep on noticing question after question is this theme, and I think it's a great theme personally- one of helping one another out, of really being a solid community- helping the other guy out if he's in trouble-him watching your back. Is this something that you think was just pervasive among the World War II generation- as it's called by Tom Browkaw…

EH: Oh, Tom Brokaw. I got his book, I've read it, and its very good, he's got some good stories in there, there's no doubt about it. If you don't help one another, no one's going to help you. So you gotta help yourself, then you in your doing so help someone else [and] you just hope that someday they're gonna help you when you need it. And it works out that way. I know now that my wife's got a little problem, and you'd be surprised how the people in the church have come to her and offered help- drive us to Boston if we want to be driven. I mean, they're nice people, and that's, that's how we were brought up. You know? Our parents, they had to work hard. When I think of my mother talking about how, you know, they didn't have a wash machine- but they used the old steam-boiler and would have it on top of the stove of the coal fire. When they got a wash-machine, they thought they were in heaven! Well, I mean, this is how we worked hard. And this is how we progressed.

AD: You mentioned you had Tom Brokaw's book- this actually didn't occur to me as a question before, but I've read it as well: What are some of your criticisms of it-being someone who's actually lived from that generation- if you have any.

EH: Well, I wouldn't want to criticize him. I mean, I think a lot of time and effort and history and stuff that they looked up and traced through and interviewed people, it's a good book.

AD: Uhhuh.

EH: And ah, we need, we need more books like that then some of the trash books which are being produced. 'Cause some of those trash books, when I get them, they hit the wastepaper basket! Quick!

Anyhow, its just the same with the politics, when you listen to people with politics, today- like we're going now going to vote on a Governor for the state of Massachusetts, and honestly, you listen to these debates that they have, and you say to yourself: "well, who do you pick?" Well, I've picked one man who I'm going to vote for. And then you listen to the other person who's running, and you realize that in this day and age, it takes a good businessman to be able to run things, whether you are in the church or in politics. And without a good businessman, you've got nothing. And it's really a shame. And I look at this woman who's running, and when you ask her a question, what she's going to do, she's always referring back to what happened- that the other man did- four and five years ago. Well, I'm talking about today! I'm not talking about four and five years ago! And you know, another thing too which they said the other day, which I thought was wonderful? And that is: So many people that we've got in Washington now in the Senate and in the House- they're too old. They don't belong there. They don't. I mean, you know, we're sitting here and everybody thinks in the State of Massachusetts- I'm gonna give you this one- that a fellow like Ted Kennedy is such a great statesman. He's not a statesman! The last statesman that was in Washington that I saw with my kids was Dirksen. And he was a statesmen. When you think of Kennedy, running around the way he did, even had people at Harvard take exams for him so that he could pass, I mean this is rotten. Then, he's running around with just a shirt on down in Florida, I mean, and he's sitting down there in Washington and making laws for us? This gets me mad! Tonight I mean it, and I'm not the only one. And I think its about time that we get rid of this garbage. And that's what it is. It's nothing but garbage.

AD: All I'll is that as a Republican from New York, I sympathize [laughs]!

EH: Oh, it's terrible.

AD: Definitely: Do you think politicians of today are more, I should rephrase this: Do you think that they are less self-effacing and less selfless that they were during World War II. Do you think politicians were more wholesome back then?

EH: Well, we had a good politician, he was our Sunday School teacher- Axel Sternloff. And he ran the high school, Sunday School and he was great to us kids. He ran for mayor of the city of Worcester. He stood up on the platform the Sunday before the election, which was on a Tuesday, and told us right in the audience upstairs that if he accepted a check for $10,000 dollars that he would become mayor of the city of Worcester. He would not accept that check and he didn't become Mayor of the City of Worcester. Now that goes back- that's how rotten it was. An it still is. Terrible. But Axel Sternloff right in that congregation told us that on a Sunday morning and I will always remember it.

AD: What did you, or your friends for that matter, think about FDR?

EH: Well, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, he did a good job. You know, it was in a tough time. Herbert Hoover did a good job for all of us, I mean, the poor guy- he promised so much and he couldn't produce it- but he did a good job overall. And it was nice, the things that we got from FDR.

AD: That's funny- the history books don't treat Herbert Hoover too well [laughs].

EH: You know, he did a lot of good for the people in the world. I mean, he really did a lot of that. And you know, FDR, don't get me wrong, his wife she came to the city of Worcester and she spoke up at the Worcester auditorium, and my older sister Alice would work for this doctor- she was his secretary- and he was running the committee that brought Eleanor Roosevelt to Worcester, she got paid back then $18,000 dollars to speak in the city of Worcester!

AD: Wow.

EH: Now that was a lot of Money.

AD: Now that's…

EH: She did alright- you can't criticize- you know, if you're always going to criticize people, it's bad. My father always told me years ago, he says, "The easiest thing in the world to do is to criticize," but he says, "remember, the man who goes to the board and makes a mark did something you didn't do."

AD: I like that.

EH: Yep. My father was a great guy. He was a self-taught boy.

AD: Self-schooled?

EH: Yeah, he had eight grades, and then after that he did all of his own reading [side one of tape ends].

AD: Ok, I think we have some tape now. Ok, um, I actually find myself a little bit short of questions, but ah, that doesn't mean we can't go on. Um, These are some concluding questions, and you know, feel free to talk at length about anything that comes to your mind:

How did you find out the war had ended, and how did you feel when it did? Did you celebrate, were you more reflective? In general…

EH: When the war ended? When the war ended, I was in Enz Austria- that's where we met the Russians.

AD: At the very point it happened?

EH: Yeah, and you know, it was really something because people don't realize how many people were in these different concentration camps, and when the war was over, we were in Enz Austria, and we had really nothing to do back then, just hanging around more or less, and all of the sudden, these two young fellas came up through the middle of the town walking, I didn't know who they were, but I had to look over, and they had a piece of cloth. which was blue and yellow pinned to their clothes. So by chance I went over to them and started talking Swedish to them. Well, they all but mobbed me. And so, then they told me how they had been students in Vienna, during the war, and they were put in the concentration camps, well, our company commander at the time has got these two boys, brought them in, gave them all new Army clothes, fitted them up, fed them, and made transportation for them to get back to Sweden. Now isn't that something?

AD: That's great!

EH: Yeah, but that's what it was. The US people and the US Army people were great people. They always helped somebody.

AD: Both of my grandparents served, myself, so I feel the same thing. Let's see anything else? What would you say would be the legacy or the memory of World War II in Quinsigamond right now if there is much of it. What kind of impact do you think it had on the community after the war? Did it make it a more economically prosperous community, did it make it more tightly knit? Or did people tend to move away?

EH: Well, after the war, what happened here, was that ah, in many cases, like in my family, there were three children, we all moved away. This happened to many families. This is why today, Quinsigamond village- it didn't have the growth, because it didn't have the open space for people to- like I built a nice home in Auburn up near the golf course, and it's pretty up there. In fact, to me, it's the nicest place to live in Worcester county. But we didn't have that in Quinsig village. And one thing though in the village here was great, and that is, if you wanted a number, we had six churches down in this village at one time. Six churches. They never had a barroom down here.

AD: That's right, I've read about that.

EH: Now we did have- Tac Gates had a lunch cart down here Millbury Street, and he had a beer license that he had for awhile, but that was the only there was a liquor license in Quinsig village. Now today, they have the package stores in the stores down there which sell liquor, but I mean, I'll tell you, we grew up as kids, there was nothing- you could go up on Millbury street and get all the booze they wanted, and the Swedes did that too! But it was pretty good. And you know, it's ah, the Village was a nice place- It's a shame though, because when you, we think of today, we say to one another, like this church here, on a Sunday, we get maybe 60 or 70 people that come to church. And we have a wonderful minister who preaches, and the words that that man uses and puts together, it's just remarkable. I mean, and so, one of my buddies that was in the war, Eddie Steele, Well, Eddie says, "It's their loss." But you know something? That doesn't help bring people into church. And it's really too bad. But. These kids go out, and we go down, and once a year we go down to Sutton Congregational church for a Sunday morning service during Easter, and you know who the ushers are down at that church? All children who grew up in this church. But know they're living in Sutton, but they're going to church. So we did some good for them. That's the way I look at it.

AD: What would you say was the total membership of the church during World War II, if you had to venture a guess?

EH: Oh, we must have had- There was 500 kids in the Sunday School, there must have been at least 250 families. So there could have been maybe 300 or 400 families.

AD: And now you'd say that that's down to?

EH: Now we're something like 130 families or something like that, but they don't come. And so all we get in church is like 60 or 70, and once in a while, like a fellow passed away here not so long ago, and the church was packed. There had to be, I think, almost 200 people here. Now they were friends of the person, but just the same, we do have a large drawing cart. But people, for some unknown reason, don't go to church- and you know, it's only in the Northeast. 'Cause my son was living in California, for a couple of years, we went out there. And all of the churches out there, all of them, whether they were Catholic churches, whether they were a Jewish church or they were a Protestant church, or whatever they were, they were full. And the church that my son went to- his wife is Catholic- and he goes to that church with the kids. And Bobby said, " We had to go there dad, half an hour ahead of time to get into the parking lot. If we didn't, it was-" And every Sunday it was full. Now why is it that people out there go to church and the people in the Northeast don't? I just can't figure it out. I've tried and studied it myself, analyzed this, and talked to different people, talked to different ministers over the years, and no one's got an answer. And it's a tough question.

AD: One I'm sure the Jesuits would be hard-pressed to answer themselves.

EH: I think so. I mean, and it's really too bad because people need religion. Can you imagine this world of ours if we didn't have religion? How it would be? It'd be terrible.

AD: Also, one of the things I did for the project, for finding interviewees, I drove around to the American Legion halls and the VFW halls, went to the Vernon Hill post of the American Legion,

EH: yeah, there's one up there.

AD: Right, went to that one, and the VFW hall is like 200 feet down the road, and then plus [post] 318. I mean, that's a pretty dense array of fraternal organizations [somehow related to WWII] in a very small area. What do you think that says about this area?

EH: I don't believe in them. They've produced too many alcoholics. That's what they've done. People can go down there and buy liquor at a very cheap price. And over the years, that 318 post produced a tremendous amount of alcoholics. And they were all nice fellows. But that's what happened.

AD: So you don't think they're representative of the area?

EH: Well I don't, I don't but it -they did a lot of good, so don't get me wrong.

AD: Right.

EH: But years ago, on memorial day and stuff like that, the 318 post would come to the different churches with color guards and present the flag to the church. But they haven't done that in years. So, I mean, a lot of the nice things that they used to do back after the war have fallen by the wayside.

AD: Their membership's down too. I was asking them about it and they said, you know years back, in the '50's they had 600 people easy.

EH: Oh yeah.

AD: But now, they're had pressed to find 50 or 60.

EH: If they get that.

AD: If they get that.

EH: Well, I think that's universal throughout and I don't think you're ever going to see it come back to the way it was. And like I said, I don't want to go back to the old days. I mean, I'll look back at them and remember them, but who'd want to live like we did back then, in the late '20's early '30's? It was terrible. I mean, today we got a pretty nice life we live. We're very comfortable, and we have things that we've wanted, and what can you ask for?

AD: This is a concluding question. Actually, it's an open-ended statement. Do you think that there is anything you'd like to add, that we haven't talked about, that you think might be of importance regarding World War II and Quinsigamond? Any reflections, or anything in general?

EH: Well, I just covered quite a bit for you. All I can say is that when I come through the village today and I look and see all of these different storefronts, are all changed compared to what they used to be, and you think of the stores that used to be down there- we used to have two drug stores down here, and we had a shoe store, which was my grandfather's brother's- he had one and his other brother had a fish market, and my grandfather had a store at the top of Stebbins street. But you know something? He was a funny guy, because he was a carpenter by trade. He never waited on a customer. He'd sit down in the back with his crony Swedes and they'd sit around and chew their snuff, and when somebody'd come to the store, my grandfather had a cane- he didn't need it but he just always had a cane with him- he'd take the cane and hit it on the floor so my grandmother would come down the steps and wait on the- he wouldn't wait on them- and he sat there with his crony Swedes day in and day out. But that was life. But that's how they lived. They were good people.

AD: You mentioned a lot of businesses down here, the main, what is this street called?

EH: This is Millbury Street.

AD: Oh that's right, Millbury street. You'd mentioned that there were a lot of businesses along Millbury Street which are now closed. Was pretty much every storefront occupied [during the war]?

EH: Sure, there was maybe one that wasn't occupied, and like I said, there were two drug stores, and there was a First National store, they first started down there in a small place. Then there were a couple of barber shops down there, and then there was another- Adolph Gutgee, he had a, like a specialty store, and he would go up to Arnold's store in the city of Worcester everyday and bring back, oh beautiful Oranges and Apples, and a lot of the pastry, and when he came back with the jelly doughnuts, we'd go down and get one for five cents- beautiful big jelly doughnuts! And then further down, we had a jewelry store which was mostly jewelry, and that was a beautiful jewelry store they had down there, that was really something and he was quite a jeweler himself, he really was a real pro at it, Oscar, and he had a nice Jewelry store down there, and then of course, there were some more grocery stores down there, and they had- we had a nice area. There was a five and ten, there was a dry goods store, this woman, she was a maiden lady, Hilda Lindquist, and she ran that for years and that was a nice little store she had down there [Inaudible]. And then there was a five and ten down there and there was the bakery, and another bakery further down. I mean, Quinsig was really compact, and anything you wanted you could buy it here.

AD: Was there any kind of close-knit business organization, or like a chamber of commerce?

EH: No, no, no. It was done more with the churches and the ministers that promoted all of this stuff. And that was fine.

AD: So the church took a big lead in the community?

EH: They sure did. Well, that was the, that was your central point of entertainment- was your church.

AD: Remarkable.

EH: yeah.

AD: I many places it's not like that anymore.

EH: Oh no, it's not like that here. Now, they're getting ready, you can see these tables are all up and the girls are going to have a Christmas fair here and they'll perhaps raise quite a bit of money.

AD: That's on November 2nd?

EH: yeah.

AD: Right, I saw the…

EH: This coming Saturday, and the girls will make this and some will make, do some knitting some girls will- they've been having classes, they've been doing, making things-once a week they'll all get together and they work together and then they bring in the stuff that they do and they sell it. And like, this one here, or maybe its that one over there, no this one here, and all the women will bring in their- some of the jewelry that they don't want and these two girls sit, and clean them all up and they sell them. You know, and somebody else will have a lot of woodworking, we have one fella here that is very talented with, with woodworking, and he'll bring that stuff down. Then over here they'll have a big bake table, and the women will bring their stuff and they'll sell all of that, you know, then they have what you call a coffee [Inaudible] where they can go and get their lunch. And they make sandwiches, and all of the girls prepare that and they have that, and they do pretty well. And I'll tell you, its like in any church, the people that raise the most money are the women- they are the backbone. It's been like that for years. They're the ones that promote it and do it.

AD: I guess that pretty much wraps it up then…

EH: Ok

AD: Unless you have anything else to say. Well then, thank you very much for your time.

EH: Alright.