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Interview with Florence Ingman
Interview by Kevin Higgins
The Ingman Home, Worcester, MA
October 29, 2002
Kevin Higgins (KH): Testing? Okay. So this is our interview with Mrs.
Florence Ingman for the Worcester Homefront Project. So, Mrs. Ingman,
uh, what is the first thing you think of when you think of World War II?
Florence Ingman (FI): Well, just that my husband was in it. That was
something we couldn't do anything about. I mean um, what can I say, I
wasn't uh… no one's in favor of war that's for sure. But this war,
I would say, had to be fought. And I , uh, I always admired Franklin
Roosevelt. In fact he's been my favorite president even though I was Republican,
brought up a Republican, I am now a Democrat. And, I um, I thought …
well the war was inevitable. But none of us liked to send our loved one,
not knowing what the, what the outcome is going to be… are we going
to see him again… and… its quite a shock. I only had one child
then and she was five months old when he left. So it was rough.
KH: What was it like to have a child during the war?
FI: Well, uh, he was here for the birth. So, I mean, he left when she
was only, like I said, five months. And uh, I managed fine because then
I moved home to a West Rutland, Vermont, where I'm originally from. I
came here to become a nurse. I'm a graduate of Haniman Hospital, in the
class of 1942-sounds like a long time ago. And uh, so when I went to West
Rutland, Vermont, my mother, father had a big home and there was plenty
of room for us. They put all the furniture in storage. And, that was it
until he came back. And uh, I did uh head nursing for a while, and I did
private duty nursing, and my mother took care of the baby so I could get
a little ahead because I was only getting $50 a month for the two of us.
KH: Right.
FI: So that wasn't much money. And the most difficult thing with the boys,
for the fellows going in the war is they lost out on making a good living
and putting money aside. Where a lot of them were making, you know, war
ammunition and planes where they were really able to get ahead at that
age that we were in.
KH: Right.
FI: Where we were living on a limited income. If he had been an officer,
but he went in as a private, so naturally he uh, you know, they just get
the minimum I guess you'd say.
KH: The minimum.
FI: But I managed fine because of going. That was a smart move to make-going
to Vermont to live with my folks. And uh, my mother was terrific with
the baby, and I was able to work. And uh…
KH: That's great.
FI: And uh, I had it made that way, you know.
KH: So were times, times were harder here in Worcester than, than
you'd say in Vermont, do you think?
FI: Well I had it better so I didn't have to pay any rent. See, I lived,
my mother and father did that as a favor because they felt so bad that
that, you know, I didn't have my husband around and they were able, they
owned a big house, you know, in the country, up in Vermont. And uh, it
sure helped me a lot. I can remember one of the first things we bought
when he got out of the service. I had my mother-in-law loan me. She said,
"You can't have it," but the bedroom set. So we went out and
bought a brand new bedroom set, a kitchen set, and a living room set.
And we couldn't have done that when we started-have an apartment back
again. This was after he got home.
KH: Uh huh.
FI: So, financially, we made it you know.
KH: Right.
FI: My daughter and I, because of wonderful parents…
KH: Wonderful family.
FI: Oh, very close. And this is what I have now. I'm blessed with wonderful
family. Wonderful. We're very close, my daughter and her husband, and
my son and uh, grandchildren-we're all very close-knit. I've got pictures
as you can see of them. My daughter-she graduated from Franklin Pierce.
My oldest granddaughter, right there, she has a … farm. She teaches
horseback riding out in Princeton at the Gateway Farm. They own that.
Right now she's got three horses.
KH: Wow.
FI: Yeah, she's very good, very good with the animals and this is something
she loves. They have 5.5 acres out in Princeton. And uh, my other granddaughter
is a junior in high school now. So, time's going by. And, they're great
all of them. Can't complain on that.
KH: So obviously, one of our questions is uh, did anyone in your family
or anyone you know go to fight in the war? So obviously, this is the,
your husband going to the war. How, when you heard that he had to go to
the war, how did that affect you?
FI: Well, the tears were there. And we just were hoping that it wouldn't
come to that but… I'm one that can pick up the pieces. I'm very fortunate.
I'm a real Christian. I believe in God and I think my prayers and everything,
oh I believe in that sincerely that that's what helped me. And uh, you
had to keep the faith. At the same time, you're on edge-let's put it that
way. It's not a comfortable life with your husband over there. Uh, I don't
know how to put it. It's lonely, and it's uncomfortable. You lose the
companionships and the caring that you got from a wonderful man. Like
my daughter said, "I wish I could marry, get a guy like you have
Mom." "Well," I said, "they're few and far between."
And uh, she's found that out. So uh, I was able to survive and you know,
before I knew it, I had him home again. I don't know what else to say.
KH: Nope. You answered.…
FI: I was blessed.
KH: Right.
FI: I was really blessed getting him home and life went on after that.
KH: Did you find yourself taking up a different role with the start
of the War, in your family life? Were there added responsibilities? Did
you have friends here in Worcester… who you noticed started working,
joined civic groups, things like that, with the start of the war?
FI: Well with the nursing profession we were short of nurses, very short.
So I could have worked seven days a week, every day, right through every
month. That's how busy they were. And many a time, I would find out that
I was working, not eight hour shifts, but like, twelve hour, well sometimes
twelve, and that isn't every day... but…. You noticed the shortage
of nurses very much. I mean that was very uh… very predominant...
is this being so short of nurses. But not only up there, when I went to
Vermont, it was the same here. You know, because I kept in touch with
a few other nurses and I had a couple in my class. One of my very good
friends, her name is Catherine Flynn Nolan. And uh, she was there as a
nurse. She was at the Battle of the Bulge, and she kind of kept me informed
how terrible that was. And that was… so we had three nurses. Let
me see… Mulrey, Shea, and Flynn… three nurses to my knowledge
that uh, signed up to, to you know.…
KH: To go to Europe?
FI: To go to Europe. Yup. They're all back as far as I know. We're scattered
now… see each other at alumni meetings but…. Oh, Flynn's in
Florida, but there aren't many around here now. Most of the girls I graduated
with have moved really away, you know.
KH: How do you remember this change now, this period of taking up
new roles? As far as what you were talking about with uh, there was a
shortage of nurses… does it seem… did you have to think about
it or was it just something you felt you had to do? Were you helping the
war effort in some way?
FI: Well, you were by… filling in. You were by filling in because
of the shortage.
KH: Uh huh.
FI: You were doing the extra hours and uh, you know you found yourself
sometimes with more, more work than you could almost handle because that's
the way uh… With a shortage you just had to make up for the girls
that weren't there. Cause I wasn't the only one in this, in this situation
you know. So, they were… And right now, I understand, there's a shortage
of nurses also now. And that's due to the closing of your nursing schools.
KH: Uh huh.
FI: That was the biggest mistake they every made. And because you also
don't have the quality of nurses, the quality that we put out for our
patients. You will never see that again. In the old days they put out
good nurses. I'm so proud of that. I really am.
KH: Uh, Quinsigamond, uh, seemed to have more of a paternalistic family
situation. They used to have doll-making clubs for girls and patriotic
clubs for boys. So, when the war came, and the men went to fight, and
suddenly the women are here… I know you've already talked about your
situation. But were there any people that you knew here in Worcester where
it was more of a shocking situation kind of that they were thrust into
this a new role here that they had to take up? For their families? With
their husbands gone, did they ever talk about having a feeling of…
just a newness about it that they weren't used to?
FI: I think a lot of them, if I look back, a lot of them had more difficult
to accept it. The ones that, should I say, stayed in their apartments…
very few, in my class, I know, and in my era, let's put it that way, owned
their homes then. Most of them were struggling and they were renting either
apartments… and things like that. And the ones that were here, that
stayed here, I remember my roommate (did not get the name), some
of them found it very difficult to manage the loneliness. But you know
I was very fortunate that I made that move and, like I said, put everything
in storage and moved to Vermont. Because I had the support of two great
parents, two great parents. You couldn't, you couldn't get it… and
to make it easier for me… I didn't have to contribute to like rent…
I mean they owned their home… to the food… my mother had me
put all that aside so that when John came home we could buy the furniture
that we really needed and, in fact, she even had us take... she said,
"I'll take care of Judy so that the two of you can go away for like
a long weekend." And I remember that. And, at that time, I felt I
needed it because, you have no idea, when your husband's been gone that
long it's like a stranger walks in on you. And sometimes there were times,
I said, "I don't even know him I don't know this man. He's changed."
Well, probably being, when you're young, you didn't expect that war is
going to change someone so much that it was like getting to know one another
all over again. That would be a better way of putting it.
KH: No definitely-answers the question completely.
FI: And there were a lot of them, after the war, that either got divorced,
separated, they were having problems, because they would share it with
me.. other nurses about their husbands. "Joe just came home and that
isn't the man that left me. I don't know if I can take it or, I don't
know if I can make a go of the marriage." Like someone different
walked through the door. Well I was fortunate because is the first place,
I always have said, I don't like to sounds like I'm boasting, but I was
married to most wonderful man in the whole word. It was the greatest bond
anyone, and I mean this, no one had that bond! And I'm still missing him.
My gosh! I'm still missing him and it was eight years this past September
he past away of a massive coronary. Yeah. And uh, like I say, you don't
just get used to it because to be alone, and when you love someone that
much.. I can't explain it. But I wish it could come to everyone. Because
I see and hear of the problems today, and I guess then, and you know,
then you get more stirred up, and realize what you had then-how precious
that relationship is.
KH: It's very important.
FI: It is. And uh, then we had my son. There's eight years between the
children, because I had the war and for a long time I couldn't get pregnant.
I had to go for some injections from the obstetrician and all, and you
know, I had problems that way. And uh, then I had the hysterectomy the
year after I had John, young John. So at least we got a boy. We were very
happy but there's eight years, there's eight years between them.
KH: So when your husband came home, you were in Vermont, he comes
home… and what does that mean for your career, and what does it mean
for where you're going to live? You came back to Worcester, is that right?
FI: Yeah and we did… we rented a horse on North Grafton-right on
Grafton St. It was a Cape Cod cottage. It was a relative, a relative of
a relative. And they said that we could rent that and so that's where
we lived for a while until the one that owned it decided to get married
to the one she had divorced… it was a long story…
KH: Oh geez.
FI: … And then she said, "I'm sorry you've got to move."
And that was when we bought this.
KH: What year was that?
FI: Uh… year? Hmm. I've been here 58 years. So, if you're good at
that.…
KH: 1944.
FI: Because we got the G.I. loan! The G.I. loan
was 2.5 %. I don't think I'll ever forget that 2.5%! You know why I'm
laughing? Because, I'm laughing because I said, "Ooh that's going
to be terrible. 2.5%! Do you think we can swing it?" Well the house,
seven rooms here, $6,900. So we, I had scraped enough together so at least
we had $1000 down. Now, we're going to mortgage it for $5900. And we both
though that was a lot of money! (laughing)
KH: Haha.
FI: I knew you would laugh because you're so young. Bless you. And um,
so we took a twelve-year mortgage on this house I'm sitting in right now,
and had it paid for in twelve years. And then after that, I always wanted
the country being a Vermonter… but uh, as luck would have it, my
sister-in-law said there was a cottage at Berry Hill pond and in (did
not get the name) for sale. "Why don't you and John buy it because
you love the water so much?" So, we talked it over and I said, "oh
gosh." I said, "Her cottage is right near by." They're
both dead now. That's my oldest, my husband's oldest brother and his wife.
"Oh come on," she said. "I'll loan you the five hundred
dollars to hold the cottage, so she won't sell it to anyone … because
that's going to go fast." And, I said, "oh come on, we love
the water. And, it's so pretty out there." So, we borrowed the five
hundred… it was lot of money (laughing)… and uh, then
we took… this was paid for then, at that time. So we just re-mortgaged
the house, and we only had to re-mortgage it for about a year.
KH: Wow. So it worked out well.
FI: It worked out very good. But then, remember, we bought that place
for a total of … (laughing)… it was $2500 and then we had to
buy the land for another $1000, so the investment was $3500… on the
water!
KH: On the water. You can't get that today. (laughing)
FI: I knew you would laugh. Someone young like you. I love to see the
expression because it looks like it's so unbelievable that one time…
then again... people weren't making the money that they are now.
KH: It's true.
FI: No where's near it. My husband was working at *Riley
Stoker. He was an engineer, drawing blueprints for these big boilers.
KH: That's in Worcester?
FI: Uh, yes. And uh, Mass Electric has one of their boilers-the Riley
Stoker boiler. Yeah.
KH: Wow.
FI: Yeah, and he worked for them 47 years.
KH: Now did you continue as a nurse once your husband came home?
FI: Uh, I did. I worked a lot on weekends, and that. I did private duty
after I got back to Worcester. I didn't do floor duty at all. And uh,
I, because there were a lot of calls for that, because, remember, there
was no intensive care. So when the patients were really sick, they had,
I did a lot of lung operations… after they got through with the surgery.
And uh, they had to have someone in the room constantly. So with no intensive
care, they called in private duty nurses. And then I was more flexible
so I could still be a homemaker. So I would work almost every weekend,
or every other weekend.
KH: Was that fine with you, from going to working full-time…
did you work full-time in Vermont?
FI: Uh huh.
KH: Was that, how'd you feel about that-going back to just on the
weekends?
FI: Well, I always liked floor duty. I don't like supervising, which
I've done. Uh, I filled in first as a head nurse when they were, when,
you know, people were sick or something. And then I became assistant head
nurse. And uh, then I, I don't know…. I liked working with patients
one-on-one… with the baths, taking care of them… and uh, doing
all these treatments. So, I took a lot of automobile accident cases. When
I was working here in Worcester, I had my name at the St.
Vincent and City memorial, Haniman, all of them… Fairlawn. Fairlawn
wasn't a rehab then. Fairlawn was a hospital.
KH: Okay.
FI: See all these things have changed. And uh, I would work at all of
them. And I usually signed myself for accidents. So there was a bid demand
for that. And then you're only on until, when they're in really bad condition...
and then you have to go back on floor care.
KH: Okay. I understand.
FI: I never worked after intensive care came in.
KH: Oh I understand.
FI: You know. I'm getting up there in years.
KH: Okay. So now we'll go back to the beginning of the war. How did
you feel when Pearl Harbor was attacked?
FI: Very nervous. I felt like some of them are feeling now about going
in to try and get rid of what's his name, Hussein.
KH: Hussein. Right.
FI: And uh, I say no on that, all the way on that. Because they don't
know what they're in for. I wish Franklin Roosevelt
was back, believe you me right now. And he could give advice to our country.
My opinion, and I've read a couple books on him, I've read… I love
history, always did…
KH: I'm a history major, so I love it.
FI: Well, thank you! Nice to meet someone who loves history. I've read
about Kennedy, all of them, and I still say… Truman. Truman never
got credit for being as smart of a man as he really was. Now we're going
into history again. I better leave that alone, but, I still say the best
president we ever had was F.D.R., without a doubt.
Except the third term I don't think he should have run, because of his
health. And uh, of course after that Truman took over. My son, by the
way, was in Vietnam War. Saw a lot of action. He was in the Navy.
KH: Okay.
FI: So I've had two uh….
KH: Two soldiers.…
FI: Yes, two people… and none of that is ever pleasant. Not ever,
no matter what. And let's hope this does never go through. You ever have
a gut feeling that they shouldn't do it?
KH: Yeah.
FI: Don't go in there. Oh, I'm thinking those nice young fellows, and
those with families, and not knowing how they're going to come back. And,
this really is now very scary. And that bothers me… we've got the
wrong president in right now I feel. Oh, ashamed at… I shouldn't
talk about him right now I suppose but…
KH: I know it.
FI: He makes me nervous. We've got the wrong man in.
KH: Do you remember D-Day?
FI: Oh absolutely. Yes I do.
KH: What was that like?
FI: Well, when they came home you mean?
KH: Yes.
FI: We all went to… Rutland is the city next to West Rutland…
and we all got in the cars and people were carrying
flags, walking in the streets, and they were all singing. Oh yes…
we all had to go to Rutland when we first heard it.
KH: That's great.
FI: Yeah.
KH: During the war, what did you think, how did you think about the
enemy? How did you perceive him?
FI: Well, the maniac that started it-Hitler. Yeah, well… we certainly…
I think everyone felt that they had to get rid of him. In that war, that
was a necessity. If this ever happens, God forbid. And of course Vietnam…
well they blew that more or less… I can't… I don't know…
that was…there was no winners there.
KH: Right.
FI: There were no winners. And that was too bad. All these guys had to
die, and get mangled and come home…
KH: So, your sense of the fighting in World War II… what was
your sense of it back then?
FI: We needed to do it. We needed to do it. And I think everyone, you
know, it wasn't like now where people are frightened of what this president
might do, and do foolishly. Of course, probably everyone doesn't feel
that way. But, that war and to be fought, and it was won. It was one of
the most necessary wars, but remember, what we had for generals in them
days. We're talking top-notch generals. Furthermore, look what we have
done now. We don't have the Army, and the Navy, and the Air Force. But
we had then to go out and fight. How many too would be willing to go and
fight a war like this? They… you know you're talking an entirely
different situation. They were… the word is gung-ho, about going
over there and getting rid of Hitler, and Mussolini, and all of them then.
KH: So has your sense of why we were fighting changed at all since
the war?
FI: Not, not about why we were fighting then. But it certainly would be
now. Now, it would be scary.
KH: Okay.
FI: Now it would be scary. Do you find yourself, people, feeling like
I do?
KH: Scared about the war?
FI: About… about attacking Iran?
KH: Definitely. Definitely. Because we have ROTC….
FI: I forgot, sure, I've walked around that building.
KH: … on campus, so I've had friends, I'm a junior now, so I've
had friends….
FI: Oh my!
KH: ...that graduated when I was a freshman, that are over there in
the Middle East right now. So, it's a, it's a tough, it doesn't really
hit you until people that you know… are over… because it doesn't,
it doesn't seem to be a big deal until someone you really know well is....
FI: Oh yes! And it's scary! It's scary! Because you're dealing… with
that Hussein. And the thing is… this is not right. Bush should not
have the authority that they are giving him, be able to be the one saying
what we should do. It should all go through United Nations. That is the
right way. And because he has got this vendetta, that's the word-vendetta
against Hussein, so strong, he wants to pull all of us in there? Does
he think we're foolish-that we don't understand?
KH: I know.
FI: I hate to say that... an 82-year old lady is smarter than the President
is right now. But I feel I am.
KH: Right.
FI: With my beliefs, and my feeling of how wrong it is to do this. We
should leave well enough alone! Well, I don't know how it's going to go.
See I get all up in this.
KH: We'll see. We'll see.
FI: Yeah.
KH: So how distant was the war from you, uh, during the War years?
Was it, I imagine it was, I mean given the fact that your husband was
over in Europe.…
FI: Well, very close to me the war! Very close. And at that time too,
you know, the only way we, it was only radio as
you know. And I can remember one of the commentators, and I could not
stand him. His name was Gabriel Heater. Do you
remember the name at all?
KH: No.
FI: I didn't know if they mentioned him, because you're a history buff.
Maybe they didn't mention… uh, any, well he was always a pessimistic
guy. And, and, of course my father would, "Of course, we've gotta
turn on Gabriel Heater." "It's bad."-How would you like
to hear this? "Bad out there tonight." Such and such an army,
I'll say the 7th army, is fighting, uh, and they've lost, and then he'd
mention how many people had been lost, and uh, and then you heard about
the Battle of the Bulge, and all this. Sure, this was scary listening
to this on the radio. And Lowell Thomas,
he wasn't so bad of an announcer, but when you listen to Gabriel Heater.
He was quite a pessimistic announcer. Oh boy those were some days but,
yes, it was a frightening thing. It was a frightening thing. And I can
remember, myself, not sleeping good.
KH: Do you remember the kinds of war-related activities that were
going on? They had the press coverage, calls for increased production,
the purchase of war bonds.…
FI: Oh yes.
KH: Uh, can you talk about that a little bit?
FI: Yes, and rationing.
KH: And rationing.
FI: I remember. I was lucky. I got the B. They had
the A, the B coupons-might as well call it a coupon, there was another
name for it. And, uh, because being a nurse, you were given more gas
coupons, because in other words, you were a necessity. You understand?
KH: Yes.
FI: It wasn't as though you were going to be a clerk in some store, grocery
store, or something. It was uh, so I had enough gas. But it was really
very difficult to get gas, unless you had the B, wasn't so bad. You got,
it was a little book, and you got more coupons. The A, well they just
got what they barely needed. You know, to run an errand, and things like
that. And there were always people asking you, "Do you have any coupons
to spare?" And now, again, you had, especially your meat was rationed.
Then again, you had so many coupons, that you could get so much meat per
week. And there was also lines. Now, you've got the lines that you had
to stand in, to get what you wanted.
KH: Right.
FI: So there you have the lines. And the gas lines... that was another,
lines. The world wasn't as easy as it is now when you can drive right
up to a gas pump. Gee, they should thank their lucky stars that they can
do all this right now. But, if we have another way, you can go right back
to all this.
KH: Did you notice any upswings during the War, or was it, was it
just a feeling that we're at war. Did you notice any, when the United
States made a... when the Army had a big victory... did you hear about
it? Did it change the way you thought about the war?
FI: Oh yes! Yes. Sure, when you heard, on the
radio, well… that... like the Battle of the Bulge, uh, and the landing
of Normandy, that was terrible. But those, course, those guys were picked
off... like... well, I don't know what to say. But, that was a horrible
thing. My friend Bucky Selminson down here. He was in the landing of Normandy.
And he said it was terrible. He had nightmares, Elaine told me, he had
nightmares, oh, they lasted for years. He would wake up screaming.
KH: Aww.
FI: Oh yeah. Bucky and Elaine Seliminson-very good friends of mine. They,
and uh, so a lot of them were effected that way. My husband would sleep
restlessly for a long time, and would get up at night, and I knew it was
what he had gone through. You know how you think you're probably still
in one of those foxholes. And he was lucky to get out with his life when
they were cut off from the regular Army. So a, things like that.
KH: Uh huh. Do you see any.…
FI: You know I… I'm sorry.
KH: Do you see any difference in the way you remember the War and
the way it was portrayed in movies?
FI: Well now, you see, I boycott movies. And you're going to wonder why?
I mean I haven't been to a movie in a long time. I did get to go with
my granddaughter to the thing about, "The Horse Whisperer" with
Robert Redfield. I made an exception. My reason-the vulgarity, the sex,
profanity. I could go on and on. And I refuse. I refuse to patronize them.
And I know I sound very narrow-minded, but it just rubs me the wrong way
because, in the good old days when you could show good movies that you
could really enjoy with romance and everything, and uh, and not have…
why do they have to have the filthy language is beyond me. And this really,
this really rubs me the wrong way. So I can't compare movies, or talk
about movies to you. You know?
KH: Do you remember the ones about World War II? Do you remember seeing
those… at all? Movies about....
FI: Yeah. I saw war… one with Spencer Tracy, another one with Clark
Gable. Cause we went to those movies. Remember, there was no T.V.. So
that was what we would do, while our husbands were away. We would go to
the movies with a girlfriend. A bunch of nurses, you know, would get together,
and have a sandwich or something, and then go to a movie, and things like
that. I was fortunate, as again, like I said I had my child in such good
care. She couldn't have gotten better care from anyone. My mother was
a peach. Byut uhh, it was a lot of the movies. And, you always left the
movies even more concerned, because, the movies, of course they go all
out to make it look so awful, you know, even then. But, one thing you
didn't hear… What is the matter with the world? You still, even with
all that, you still didn't hear profanities! Now if they could make movies
like that then, why do they need those four-letter words and all? What
has happened? That part to me, as an elderly person, is scary!
KH: I understand.
FI: Because they're going to answer for this on judgement day, so help
me. This is awful.
KH: Did you have any patriotic posters or decorations
or anything?
FI: Oh yes. Yeah, the star in the window. If you had a veteran that died,
you got the gold star in the window, and otherwise you, everyone had,
like if you had two veterans in one household, you'd have two stars, always
hanging in the living room window, like Ma said, to put it in the living
room window so everyone could see it. There was, yeah, you were all so
proud that you had a member in your family that was serving the country.
KH: Uh huh.
FI: I guess you could say that too. Cause I remember that. Yeah, you were
proud to hang that star in the window.
KH: Do you remember what, it was your daughter that was in school
during the war? Is that right?
FI: No, no. She was only five months when he went in, and when he came
home she was two and a half, going on the third birthday.
KH: Oh ok.
FI: She hadn't turned three yet when he moved, when he was allowed to
come home.
KH: Oh ok.
FI: But she didn't even know him. Except, even though she'd been looking
at pictures, you'd always say show a picture, "Oh. Here's daddy,"
because after all, only five months going in. You know, and then show
pictures of daddy in his uniform in that, you know, because I didn't want
her to forget that was her daddy.
KH: I understand.
FI: Sure, that's kind of rough. You know we talk about him and then in
our prayers, you know, I'd take her little hands and then I'd clasp mine
over them, "We're going to pray to the Lord now, you know, to ask
him to protect daddy," and then explain what he was doing, why he
was away.
KH: Ok. I understand. Well, we we've talked a little bit about the
movies, how you went to the movies with your friends….
FI: Oh yeah, quite often. And again, war movies… a lot of them…
KH: Were there any other things that you….
FI: I can't even remember so long ago about names. I would remember them
if I heard them.
KH: Were there any other kinds of things that you did for fun during
the War?
FI: No, well… visiting, playing cards, like my mother and father
and all of use would play Wisp *?. My sister, she wasn't home much, she
took a job where they make bomb sites. She went to Connecticut, and stayed
with my aunt, who lived in Bethel, Connecticut. Because she would be near
the factory where they made the bomb sites.
KH: Ok.
FI: So she did all this, she worked in, I'm don't know if it was part
of Pratton-Whitton, that was in Hartford, Pratton-Whitton *? was in Hartford.
And she stayed in Danbury, Connecticut and lived with them all during
the War.
KH: Oh ok.
FI: Because she was single. She wasn't married until she got home, until
the war was over, sorry. So she was doing a lot of… she went to a
lot of um, what do you call, these rallies?
KH: Right.
FI: So she did a lot of that.
KH: Ok. Uh, going, uh, you were here six months during the war from
the time your husband left until you moved to Vermont. Is that right?
FI: I was here approximately six months.
KH: About six months, yeah. Were there any civic organizations around
Worcester that you or some friends you knew belonged to that came up with
the war effort-patriotic associations or things like that? Remember anything?
FI: You know, I really can't remember. I know we had special prayer
services at church that I attended.
KH: What parish was that?
FI: I belonged, at that time, to the Greendale
Lutheran Church, see, in that area, because that's where, that's where
I had my tenement that I lived in with my husband before he went.
KH: Ok. Sure.
FI: They called it the Zion Lutheran Church, not Greendale. And now I
belong to the Emmanuel Lutheran Church
down here.
KH: Ok.
FI: My husband and I, my husband was always active in Church. He was on
the board, and things like that.
KH: Oh ok.
FI: So we were always church-going people.
KH: Was there any change in your faith life during the war? Did it
get stronger?
FI: Stronger. Absolutely, much stronger.
KH: Did you notice if there was more of an attendance at Greendale,
in those six months that you were there? Was there more of a community
feeling?
FI: Yeah. That's easy to answer. Yes.
KH: Did Greendale, did Greendale, support the war as a parish? Most
of the parishioners, were they….
FI: Yes!
KH: Was there any opposition, or was it kind of….
FI: You know what, looking back, you know how long it's been it's kind
of hard to look back… I never remember any opposition at all. I don't,
and this is truthful, I never did. And when I went up to Vermont I went
to the little church that I got confirmed in because then I was in that
little town called West Rutland. And, again, everyone seemed… just
rooting for the boys that are over there. Special prayers were said for
them-special prayers that the ministers would say to pray for the servicemen
and anyone in the parish who had loved ones over there, we're going to
bow our heads and we're going to say a special prayer. It would always
be that way. And uh, I can remember, I cried very easily then too. I think
you did, because you're emotional, because you're not a complete person.
You know, I didn't have a complete family with my husband gone.
KH: Right. Right.
FI: You reacted to things different.
KH: I understand.
FI: It's hard to explain.
KH: Quinsigamond's um, Quinsigamond's population is heavily Swedish.
FI: Yes. It was, when I lived here, we were all Swedish-the whole area.
That's why, another reason, of course my lovely darling Aunt Clara lived
on Stockholm Street. You go down and take the next right.
KH: Ok.
FI: And she's the one that told me, told John and I, that this was empty-that
people had moved and it would have been nice. And she said, "I don't
know what it's going for but why don't you look into it. And you'd be
right near Tom and I." And so, when we bought it, she was elated!
So, I then of course, since then, then they moved up on North Steel Street.
I helped them move. So she was still near me, next to the last house on
the right. It was a two-decker there. Tom's cousins, the Petersons, you
know, owned it. But anyway, we were back and forth and it was so nice.
She was a tremendous help.
KH: That's great.
FI: Oh, we got along so good together.
KH: Now because Sweden was neutral during the
war.…
FI: Yeah!
KH: …did that influence the perspective of anyone in Quinsigamond?
FI: Well… there were hard feelings, because there were people that
would say, uh, "I'm ashamed to say I'm a Swede." You'd hear
that. And uh, because, they, because they weren't, didn't go along with
our country. So they, there was a stigma there. I don't know if I'm using
the right word.
KH: Yeah.
FI: Yeah. And, about Sweden being neutral. Now, I'm trying to think. Wasn't
Norway neutral too? Can you remember? I thought both Scandinavian countries
were.
KH: You know I'm not sure. I'll check on that though. I know Sweden
was but I'm not sure.
FI: Yeah. I think that Norway was too. Cause Norway, now, even with this
Gulf War, Norway didn't get involved at all. That much I do remember.
Amazing how much, I can remember, my memory was much sharper years ago.
But uh, I do know Norway was one country that never wanted to get involved.
These Scandinavian countries were like that I guess. But, I do remember,
there was some… remarks... "I don't want to say I'm a Swede"…
"I'm ashamed"… you know, just in the conversation.
KH: In the conversation.
FI: Yeah.
KH: I understand what you mean.
FI: So, it didn't go over big at all with the Scandinavians.
KH: Did that leave to any kind of, uh, neighborhood
rivalries around Worcester? Because, if you have a lot of Swedes
living in Quinsig, as opposed to another area that might be heavily Irish,
uh, was there any kind of friction between those two groups when the war
was there, that you noticed?
FI: No, not that I noticed, no.
KH: Well, it looks like we've come to, pretty much the end. How did
you find out that the war had ended?
FI: Oh, why I believe, of course it was in the paper
and we had the radio.
KH: Right.
FI: And it was the radio, and my father was an avid radio listener. My
father, by the way, I'll tell you how smart, too bad he couldn't be educated.
He made eight grades of school in Sweden in six!
KH: Wow.
FI: In six years he went through eight grades. And it was such a pathetic
thing that his father and mother, they were, you know, they were poor
farmers, and couldn't educate him. And he also, that's why skiied. He
worked, when he was young, you know they put them to work at a very young
age because there was so much poverty. So then he went to work where they
made skis. So then he entered in ski, uh, in jumping, ski jumping.
KH: Oh wow.
FI: Yeah. He won, he was telling me the different things. He spoke Swedish
more often than he did English. I can understand, I write it and read
Swedish. I'm very fortunate I picked that up at a very young age, because
that language was always spoken in the house. But anyway, [to cat] what
are you looking for? He's such a, I love him. My son is not going to get
him back by the way because I miss my other cat that had to be put to
sleep. He had cancer of the liver, and I've always had animals around.
But anyway, so uh, he, so when he came over here, over this country, he
couldn't speak any English at all. He went to work, learned the English.
This is why I'm against that bilingual thing, but I feel that if this
country is good enough to come and live in, it's good enough to learn
the language. Oh, I'm adamant about that. I think of my father, and my
grandmother and grandfather-and they were, my father was only about 20,
21 or so when he came over. But remember, my grandmother and grandfather
learned the English langauge. It was broken, broken language, you know,
with a Swedish accent.
KH: But he was, he was still able to listen to the war reports throughout
the war?
FI: Oh yeah, my father learned, you know, you're talking about a very
quick learner here. I told you he made eight years of school in six. So
he learned very fast. He learned the English language fluently very quick.
There again, that was only to his being quick to learn. He was a quick
learner. And then he went to work for the Vermont Marble Company. Because
the only things that were up there were marble and farming. There wasn't
much industry.
KH: So, so you get the paper saying the war's
over.
FI: The war is over. Big day.
KH: How do you feel?
FI: Well, you cry and you laugh. You're just, you know, you're elated-that's
the only way to put it. You just didn't want to believe it. Too bad they
had to drop that terrible bomb. That was an awful way. I guess they're
still feeling the effects of that. But I guess it was the only way. And
my husband was already *?. He sent all his underwear, mailed them home.
And then he said, "I won't be needing them anymore" because
they were going to have the dark colored underwear. And then he said that
I would not be hearing from him for a long time, because he was all set
to go to Japan, to whatever area, to where they were fighting. Maybe it
was Okinawa, I don't know.
KH: So the bomb, dropping the bomb, changes all of that.
FI: That changed his, that changed him, from uh, going on that boat to
do, to going. Just this, stuff kept coming home in boxes-a lot of other
things too, you know. Like I remember pictures and things, you know, like
that. And he said, uh, he just couldn't tell me where he was going to
be. Of course they were all informed that that was where they were going.
They were going to fight the Japanese see. So I was very fortunate that
that bomb was dropped, just right at that time when he was going to go
over there. But, I don't know if that helps you…
KH: No, definitely. Hey, we've come to the end. This is the last question
that we came up with, and that is, is there anything that we haven't talked
about, anything that you think was important during the war years that
you'd like to talk about?
FI: To keep the morale up. And like there, there were things like down
the town, we'd call it a town hall. Of course, you know what, I don't
even know if West Rutland is even on the maps anymore. It's a very small
town. They'd have like rallies, and you know the flags
and that, and there were speakers, and uh. They'd always have a chaplain,
a priest, if I remember vaguely, during the, at the beginning of the program
whatever it was. I think they were more like morale boosters. Would that
be explaining it?
KH: No definitely.
FI: But I think they seem to me, they call them rallies. Of course we
went to them, you know, and things like that. I think people got closer
to one another. Now neighbors can move in and nobody knows them.
KH: Right.
FI: Not with me! I take him. He's fine. He's turned blind recently. He
had to give up his car. He's very depressed. So I take him to the drug
store, I take him, I take him uh, to the post office and… errands
like that. In fact he was in here yesterday. He got a little lonely. He's
almost ninety. And then uh, like, with them, you see where my car is parked?
KH: Uh huh.
FI: This is how friendly we are. That's so they can park there, and when
she unloads her groceries.
KH: Oh ok. Yeah.
FI: So, it's not a distant… I love this neighborhood because of that.
It's not classy, I grant you. It's a low-income neighborhood. But like,
with them now, she's starting in. She's fourteen years younger than me,
but, arthritis and things, she's slowing down. So, I got that idea after
John died. I said I'm going to put my car over here. So now, Penny, and
her daughter when she comes… I said, "As long as my son isn't
there with his truck, doing work on the house," I can't afford to
hire a lot. So Johnny gives me a day now and then, fixes a leak in the
roof, you know, and that. And I know a lot has to be done here, but I'll
keep it the way it is so long as I'm able to have my health.
KH: So the war really, you know, the war brought people together.
FI: Oh my gosh yes! Much, much, closer. And uh, everyone you meet them
on the street, everyone was friendly. You know you'd notice that.
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